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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses headliner

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between July 8 1947 these are the air

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force with has announced that are flying

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there typing sound and is now in the

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possession of the RA the game is rigged

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change the game changer I occasionally

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think how quickly our differences

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worldwide would vanish if we were facing

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[Applause]

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this is baked and black with your host

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Jimmy church on the game-changer radio

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network and a GRA the global radio

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need your help to get to the year 1985

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[Music]

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you're listening to fade to black with

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jimmy touch on the game change in that

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word

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[Music]

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good evening fade to black

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this spoke radio for the masses

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yeah man today's Monday June Wow

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[Music]

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162 days into the new year Jeff 203 days

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left we are live from a bunker somewhere

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in downtown Burbank California and I

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would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world all

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across the United States hither and

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thither to and fro back and forth up and

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down east and west north and south far

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and near

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this is fade to black for kjc are the

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game changer network and KCRA the

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planets Emil Jimmy Church what is

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cracking everybody how you doing an

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amazing show we've got right in front of

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us tonight

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Terry Lovelace joins us a former

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assistant attorney general lawyer esq

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Esquire we're gonna be talking about his

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amazing encounter contact and his new

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book incident at Devil's Den yeah so

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that's what we're gonna be talking about

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tonight and get ready for this I've

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wanted Terry on the show for many years

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going back to when I had first heard

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about his case and him and and back then

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it was a it was a private conversation

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and and I was told that you know

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assistant attorney general and an

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attorney and and and so forth and and

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implants and contact and I was like what

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and you know we've got to get him on the

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ship well he's not ready and you know

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you hear that like man you know okay all

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right well it's taken a while but

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tonight Terry is gonna share his his

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experience with all of you so get ready

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for that

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tomorrow night Rob Potter is here and

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it's always great when Rob is on the

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show Thursday

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Knight is another Fator Knight with Jon

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Rappoport and there's no more fake

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newsroom live followed by open lines all

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night long okay now let's get everything

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out of the way on stellar is just

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absolutely amazing and I was looking at

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the numbers for on stellar today Wow

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Wow incredible what on stellar is done

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and it's just this is before the

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beginning the beginning hasn't happened

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yet right still in still in beta and

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there's a couple of more features and

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improvements that are going to be done

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this week I'll go over that with you

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later on in the week when those kick in

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but for now the platform is amazing and

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it's everything that we thought it would

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be and much much more and so as we start

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to phase out Facebook and YouTube and

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start to move everything over on stellar

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you can go now and join okay it's very

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simple it's just the next great amazing

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social media platform totally free to

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sign up it's just a social media

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platform like Facebook or anything else

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all right

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totally free and as a matter of fact you

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get paid to join okay so when you sign

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up and it's very simple you just go to a

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stellar calm you sign up and and go

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build your profile page like you do with

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anything else and go start saying hello

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to friends and building your friends

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list and maybe get a group started

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events write articles do all of that but

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when you sign up and you go to your

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profile page on the left there you'll

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see a wallet it'll say your wallet and

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there will be ten tokens there boom this

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is a token based economy with the

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blockchain built in and there you go and

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it's done that way for a lot of

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different reasons but it's a token based

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economy so you're gonna get ten tokens

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just to sign up if you use my referral

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code we

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is Jimmy very simple use my referral

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code you're gonna get 15 bonus tokens

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and you're gonna go over and you're

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gonna look and you're gonna have 25 of

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those tokens I'm stellar tokens in your

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wallet when everything kicks in in

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quarter three it's just a couple of

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short months away you're gonna have

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tokens right there that you can spend

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and use and and there you go it is

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wonderful it is the Internet 3.0 so go

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now and join and sign up and participate

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in on stellar okay on stellar comm o NS

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te ll AR and when you do send me a

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friend request so cool I mean every day

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I got a pile of firm requests oh by the

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way use a profile picture

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I'm warning everybody right now I have

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got over at on stellar right now

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somewhere in the neighborhood of five

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hundred pending friend requests that I

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haven't accepted you know why no profile

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picture no profile picture no

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confirmation from me okay

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and so I go I'm reviewing it all the

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time and and people will add their

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profile picture and then I accept the

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friend request so do it

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don't hide be proud of who you are put

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up your profile picture okay I want to

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see who you are I do I really do I want

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to see who you are so do the profile

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picture and look yeah thank you mark

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mark just this is the infamous this is

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the infamous on stellar placeholder pic

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this is who you are to me I'm tweeting

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it now this is who you are to me and on

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stellar without your profile pic and I'm

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gonna write that right here this is who

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you are to me at on stellar with out

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without your profile pic there you go

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see and that's it so I've got I've got

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500 of these staring at me in the face

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I've accidentally accepted a couple so

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if you slip through the cracks just

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because I was just clicking away

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congratulations

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but put up a profile pic do it do it so

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many people over it on selling right now

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it is just so cool

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so I'm stellar you can still know of

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course our Twitter's not going to go

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away until something funky happens there

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but you can follow me on twitter at j

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radio that is simple don't worry about

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facebook we updated once in a while and

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we'll continue to do that until we make

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the complete transition I don't know

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what to do about YouTube right now that

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is just darkness that I just never

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thought I would see man but over at on

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stellar there will be soon video

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channels that's right okay okay all

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right enough of the dark stuff let's get

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to the good stuff the sandbox on Twitter

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is hashtag f2b come and hang out with us

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over there

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okay that is an amazing conversation

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station we do mm maybe 3000 tweets at

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night and so come over and hang out with

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this error hashtag f2b we have to chat

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rooms one over at Spreaker and one over

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a kg RA the planet so you can hang out

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there if chatting is the way that you

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want to go and it's so funny every time

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I say that I think about it then I just

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go over and go good evening everyone

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see I do it in real time and they know

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because they're listening to the show

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and they see that coming

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I am and church is legit church is legit

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all right you can also email Jimmy at

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Jimmy Church radio calm if you have any

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questions or comments during the show

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tonight you can tweet hashtag f2b Q and

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I'll see it right there and fade to

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black questions alright let's get this

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show cracking I'm ready

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breaking news Kentucky Fried Chicken

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that's right

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KFC is getting ready to launch

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wait for it vegetarian Fried Chicken

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seriously that's right that's right now

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yeah let your imagination run for a

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second

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they are perfecting vegetarian Fried

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Chicken and it will be deep-fried made

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of what it's gonna be a secret but I

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have one thing to say I've got about ten

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but but if you're a vegetarian and you

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go to a place called Kentucky Fried

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Chicken for a meal you ain't a

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vegetarian you're not you're not and I

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just threw up in my mouth a little just

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it you know just just so I got to

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swallow that and I just man that's nasty

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yeah isn't that bizarre and it's it's

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it's funny to me because every all the

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vegans out there other vegetarians try

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to make vegetables taste like meat they

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do and I get I get those very kind very

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nice very sweet dinner invites all the

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time that you know they always say the

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same thing I can't imagine them every

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day

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Jimmy we want to take you and Reid out

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for gourmet

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vegan meal you're gonna love it man it

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tastes just like meat come on you're

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gonna love it I promise it'll be the

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best you ever had the best vegan

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restaurant in lausanne I get it all the

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time all the time and I get it you know

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I really do i do i do we all love the

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taste of meat even vegans and but how

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come I can't send out the invite that

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says you know what I'm just gonna say

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how come I can't send the invite that

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says Rita and I would like to take you

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out to a great steak house you go to my

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vegan friends and tell them it's

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grass-fed beef

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it tastes just like grass you'll love it

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come on it's the best steak house in LA

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only grass-fed beef tastes it tastes it

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tastes grassy I can't do it isn't it

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bizarre double standard absolutely and

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it's so funny when you think about it if

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you go if if a meat-eater like myself

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carnivorous if you go to a party a

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meat-eater party everyone will look out

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for that odd vegan that shows up that

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needs to eat I do it Rita doesn't over

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at the house you know we take care of

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our vegan friends but if I go to a vegan

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house party they never say hey Jimmy

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come on over we got we hooked you up

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with some cheeseburgers we got you a

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special plate right here just for you

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we're looking out for you it doesn't

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work that way isn't it strange you know

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I would love to I would love to go to a

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vegan restaurant

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and act like a vegan does at a steak

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house just just have those same

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reactions you know and they just bring

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something over and I taste it and I'll

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just spit it out start screaming you

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know what are you doing you know but we

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can't it's a it's a strange double

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standard and I really I really kind of

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enjoy the observation and part of it is

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that this is this is what is strange and

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00:15:42,329 --> 00:15:37,380
we see this throughout life

274
00:15:47,550 --> 00:15:42,339
vegans okay meat eaters carnivores right

275
00:15:50,670 --> 00:15:47,560
like myself we don't mind vegans they're

276
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:50,680
cool they're fine no issues don't want

277
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:52,000
to eat meat don't eat meat

278
00:16:00,740 --> 00:15:53,529
we're not gonna force anything on you

279
00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:00,750
it's no big deal Lien's hate us hate and

280
00:16:07,019 --> 00:16:04,060
and I'm saying a very light word there

281
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:07,029
it's actually worse than that but they

282
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:12,880
think we hate them too like they hate us

283
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:17,290
and it's simply not the case it's simply

284
00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:21,040
it's it's just not don't care it's all

285
00:16:28,139 --> 00:16:24,790
good we we we love everybody but it's

286
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:28,149
not the case with vegans you know and

287
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:33,730
it's just a strange thing and the

288
00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:35,769
treatment that carnivores get from

289
00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:39,670
vegans you know I get I get all of it I

290
00:16:46,139 --> 00:16:42,760
get how you became a vegan I do watched

291
00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:46,149
a couple of videos read a couple of

292
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:50,019
books you're an animal lover I get all

293
00:16:56,189 --> 00:16:52,240
of that you get emotional maybe you saw

294
00:16:58,559 --> 00:16:56,199
a documentary and you cried and and and

295
00:17:03,289 --> 00:16:58,569
I get that I get how you got there

296
00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:03,299
that's fine but life is about choices

297
00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:07,480
life is about choices and if somebody

298
00:17:13,570 --> 00:17:10,630
likes what they like you don't hate them

299
00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:13,580
for it if somebody likes to wear

300
00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:18,560
red pants and you can't stand the color

301
00:17:25,390 --> 00:17:20,270
red that doesn't mean you hate that

302
00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:25,400
person right it's it's just it life is

303
00:17:30,790 --> 00:17:27,920
choices life is bad and that is what

304
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,800
made this planet beautiful and I say it

305
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:32,240
all the time

306
00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:37,370
that God made vanilla and chocolate ice

307
00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:42,740
cream for a reason for a reason so we

308
00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:43,550
can have choices

309
00:17:51,550 --> 00:17:45,800
Jimmy why are you poking the vegan bear

310
00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:51,560
see exactly not I'm just speaking the

311
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:54,440
truth not poking the vegan bear I'm

312
00:18:01,120 --> 00:17:56,570
speaking the truth everything that I

313
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:01,130
just said right now is 100% true any

314
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:03,520
vegan will tell you that and any

315
00:18:07,660 --> 00:18:05,810
carnivore will tell you that it's just

316
00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:07,670
the way that it is and I wish it would

317
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:09,590
be different let's just all get along

318
00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:13,130
together you know it's it's really funny

319
00:18:21,550 --> 00:18:19,310
so we know you know what I'm not gonna

320
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:21,560
go there anymore I want to get bringing

321
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:23,690
personal stuff but but it's just the way

322
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:26,180
that it is you know and and this

323
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:29,810
beautiful planet of ours is is populated

324
00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:32,390
by just people that are different that's

325
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:32,750
it

326
00:18:42,850 --> 00:18:37,970
that's all so can't we all get along the

327
00:18:46,270 --> 00:18:42,860
reason why all of us are here the reason

328
00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:46,280
why all of us are on this thing called

329
00:18:52,210 --> 00:18:49,400
fade to black right now is that it's not

330
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,220
about what's on the outside and it's not

331
00:18:56,860 --> 00:18:54,320
about what you like or don't like it

332
00:18:59,250 --> 00:18:56,870
it's about what's on your inside and

333
00:19:02,320 --> 00:18:59,260
inside you went through something

334
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:02,330
something personal something emotional

335
00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:06,290
is what brings you here and right and is

336
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:09,590
what unites all of us and that's what

337
00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:10,730
I'm interested in

338
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:13,040
I'm not interested in anybody's diet

339
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,090
habits lights or anything like that that

340
00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:19,760
it doesn't come into play for me

341
00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:21,500
and it shouldn't come into play for

342
00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:24,560
anybody else you know it's it's what's

343
00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:25,220
on the inside

344
00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:27,100
why are we

345
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:29,980
you know and and that's that's what I'm

346
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:33,250
so interested in now sharing stories and

347
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:35,770
experiences and and what brought us here

348
00:19:43,260 --> 00:19:38,770
so there you go that that's my take on

349
00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:43,270
it that's my take all right it is funny

350
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:46,900
though isn't it isn't I should I you

351
00:19:55,530 --> 00:19:51,910
know what one day one day let's let's

352
00:20:03,240 --> 00:19:55,540
fire up those fire up some video and

353
00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:03,250
let's go to a vegan restaurant this

354
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:11,590
doesn't taste like beef our next event

355
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:15,130
coming up will be disclosure fest put on

356
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:17,080
by disclosure fest in the California

357
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:20,320
State Parks the mass meditation

358
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:21,370
initiative

359
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:23,980
it'll be downtown Los Angeles at the Los

360
00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:28,140
Angeles State Historic Park 35 acres

361
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,350
beautiful go it's a free event totally

362
00:20:38,910 --> 00:20:34,240
free all you have to do is go to

363
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:38,920
disclosure fest dot org and register and

364
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:40,570
you will get your free tickets it's that

365
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:43,600
simple 35 acres vendors presenters

366
00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:46,960
speakers Film Fest 35 acres gorgeous

367
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:49,870
downtown unbelievable backdrop of

368
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:52,510
Chinatown and the downtown Los Angeles

369
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:55,090
skyline right there it is incredible

370
00:21:01,550 --> 00:20:58,690
full day Saturday June 23rd we're gonna

371
00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:01,560
see all of you there do not miss

372
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:06,190
disclosure fest okay now right after

373
00:21:13,410 --> 00:21:09,760
that is our sole tech gathering at ESET

374
00:21:16,170 --> 00:21:13,420
e Ranch and it's going down this August

375
00:21:20,250 --> 00:21:16,180
August 9th through the 12th just go to

376
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:20,260
Seoul tech gathering calm an amazing

377
00:21:25,170 --> 00:21:23,170
list of teachers and presenters are

378
00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:25,180
going to be there Cori Goods gonna be my

379
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:27,430
special guest we've got James Gilliland

380
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:29,470
Jason quit Matthew Ryan Makayla Sheldon

381
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:33,240
Teresa Ian aras Holly Marie Mary Gabriel

382
00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:37,700
John lund Dana Harvey Laura can too

383
00:21:43,930 --> 00:21:41,750
and you're not and Billy Carson and and

384
00:21:46,210 --> 00:21:43,940
others too as well you're not gonna want

385
00:21:47,919 --> 00:21:46,220
to miss this and on Sunday night we're

386
00:21:49,210 --> 00:21:47,929
gonna have food trucks there that are

387
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,220
gonna come in we're gonna throw a party

388
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:51,760
on the field of dreams we're gonna have

389
00:21:58,180 --> 00:21:56,570
a lot of our musicians friends musicians

390
00:22:00,399 --> 00:21:58,190
and friends and we're gonna set up and

391
00:22:02,350 --> 00:22:00,409
we're gonna do all of that right there

392
00:22:03,879 --> 00:22:02,360
on the field of dreams so you're not

393
00:22:06,580 --> 00:22:03,889
gonna want to miss us we're gonna do sky

394
00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:06,590
watches every night got off the phone

395
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:08,750
today Steve Murillo it's good to be

396
00:22:13,779 --> 00:22:10,850
there with his wife Pat so that's that

397
00:22:18,490 --> 00:22:13,789
right there is the reason to go to Seoul

398
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:18,500
Tech right okay not me not gilliland not

399
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:22,370
Cory good Steve Murillo and his wife Pat

400
00:22:26,620 --> 00:22:24,260
are gonna be hanging out

401
00:22:27,639 --> 00:22:26,630
also on stellar is going to be there too

402
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:27,649
as well

403
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:29,510
Scott Leslie he's going to be there so

404
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:31,370
you're gonna want to come up in and hang

405
00:22:36,460 --> 00:22:33,710
out and they're coming up they're coming

406
00:22:40,029 --> 00:22:36,470
up as sponsors but they're also coming

407
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:40,039
up as attendees so it's going to be just

408
00:22:45,610 --> 00:22:42,289
the the event of the summer I can

409
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:45,620
already see how this is shaping up and

410
00:22:51,549 --> 00:22:49,490
how excited we are for for this amazing

411
00:22:54,639 --> 00:22:51,559
amazing four-day weekend for everybody

412
00:22:57,820 --> 00:22:54,649
and then a week later I'll be over at

413
00:23:00,269 --> 00:22:57,830
the dimensions of disclosure in Loveland

414
00:23:04,029 --> 00:23:00,279
Colorado August 17th through the 19th

415
00:23:06,129 --> 00:23:04,039
and Cori Goods gonna be there David

416
00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:06,139
Wilcock Henry Smith Theresa Ian Aris

417
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:08,840
gerald o'donnell jordan saylor and

418
00:23:14,139 --> 00:23:11,600
twenty other speakers and presenters so

419
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:14,149
tickets and info right there dimensions

420
00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:17,210
of disclosure calm and I can already see

421
00:23:23,259 --> 00:23:20,120
the Colorado fader knots that's right

422
00:23:25,299 --> 00:23:23,269
they're all gonna be there and one group

423
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:25,309
we're in there Colorado fader nod

424
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:28,490
t-shirt that was so cool it's one of my

425
00:23:33,639 --> 00:23:31,610
favorite images of contact in the desert

426
00:23:35,919 --> 00:23:33,649
that was so cool so dimensions of

427
00:23:38,409 --> 00:23:35,929
disclosure dot-com don't forget to

428
00:23:41,620 --> 00:23:38,419
subscribe to our podcast we have over

429
00:23:46,049 --> 00:23:41,630
800 are you ready for this today is show

430
00:23:49,090 --> 00:23:46,059
number 870 oh man

431
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:49,100
870 right there archive shows custom

432
00:23:56,830 --> 00:23:51,470
apps Apple Android all platforms

433
00:24:00,279 --> 00:23:56,840
two dollars a month and it's it's the

434
00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:00,289
best value out there and you get you get

435
00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:03,230
the apps you get the automatic downloads

436
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:05,809
everything is right there okay so the

437
00:24:09,220 --> 00:24:07,850
podcasts just two dollars a month you

438
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:09,230
can also become a fan or not in our

439
00:24:14,409 --> 00:24:12,049
membership section of Jimmy Church radio

440
00:24:15,549 --> 00:24:14,419
comm we you will get the bunker can

441
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:15,559
that's right

442
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:17,720
you get commercial free downloadable

443
00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:19,940
archives and if you get the game changer

444
00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:21,409
you get all of that autograph fade to

445
00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:23,390
black gear that everybody takes pictures

446
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:26,230
of and post did you see that picture of

447
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:32,330
Rajan in front of gueros where did that

448
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,230
picture go

449
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:35,360
somebody needs to post that picture of

450
00:24:41,549 --> 00:24:37,820
Rajan in front of gueros in Austin Texas

451
00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:41,559
that's an amazing it's an amazing

452
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:45,140
picture Rashaad there you are just like

453
00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:45,530
that

454
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:48,440
post you're on Twitter I want everybody

455
00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:50,210
to see that picture of you in front of

456
00:24:57,700 --> 00:24:53,990
gueros such a cool cool picture what who

457
00:25:01,360 --> 00:24:57,710
is that oh I thought that was me for a

458
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:01,370
second there he come out of the fade to

459
00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:03,490
black mug Rajan I want to see that

460
00:25:08,049 --> 00:25:06,200
gueros picture let's get this show

461
00:25:12,490 --> 00:25:08,059
crackin happy birthday to today dave

462
00:25:14,860 --> 00:25:12,500
franco today is 33 and i posted it

463
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:14,870
because i said happy birthday to franco

464
00:25:19,690 --> 00:25:17,600
because he's a pretty convincing stoner

465
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:19,700
so i'm just gonna leave it at that he's

466
00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:21,289
pretty funny when he does his stoner

467
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:25,280
thing happy birthday dave franco and our

468
00:25:31,899 --> 00:25:27,890
dead guys birthday today

469
00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:31,909
are you ready i'm gonna do this man save

470
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:35,630
the email our dead guys birthday today

471
00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:38,350
is the guy who lived to 102

472
00:25:45,730 --> 00:25:41,630
after getting 15 heart transplants

473
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:45,740
that's right David Rockefeller

474
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:49,039
and he's still dead allegedly maybe I

475
00:25:56,169 --> 00:25:51,650
don't know it's probably something on

476
00:25:58,330 --> 00:25:56,179
some private island in Fiji but there

477
00:26:01,419 --> 00:25:58,340
you go Thank You Rajan that's what I'm

478
00:26:05,979 --> 00:26:01,429
talking about right there that gets a

479
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:10,099
that's right we're of Austin Texas

480
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,330
all right death Proof is the movie if

481
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:14,700
you haven't seen it on this day in

482
00:26:18,979 --> 00:26:15,330
history

483
00:26:21,709 --> 00:26:18,989
it happened 1982

484
00:26:25,399 --> 00:26:21,719
I'm sorry 1987 and one of his most

485
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:25,409
famous cold war speeches President

486
00:26:32,779 --> 00:26:29,580
Ronald Reagan challenges Soviet leader

487
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:32,789
Mikhail Gorbachev with this and I'm

488
00:26:42,339 --> 00:26:37,919
quoting mr. Gorbachev open this gate mr.

489
00:26:46,399 --> 00:26:42,349
Gorbachev tear down this wall

490
00:26:48,589 --> 00:26:46,409
that's right on this day in 1987 that

491
00:26:54,289 --> 00:26:48,599
was a game-changer saw it myself

492
00:26:56,779 --> 00:26:54,299
fader fact there's a fader fact there is

493
00:27:05,259 --> 00:26:56,789
a baby right now

494
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:05,269
there is a baby named Netflix hey Seuss

495
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:10,529
now why when and where I won't say I

496
00:27:17,509 --> 00:27:13,289
will protect the identity of this baby's

497
00:27:22,489 --> 00:27:17,519
parents for doing this but this is a

498
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:22,499
vetted and very real fader fact man what

499
00:27:28,459 --> 00:27:26,129
kind of what are you doing what are you

500
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:28,469
doing as parents what what are you doing

501
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:33,450
at the moment where Netflix hey Seuss as

502
00:27:40,519 --> 00:27:35,279
the name of your child just sounds like

503
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:40,529
a good idea what what is happening at

504
00:27:45,109 --> 00:27:43,679
that moment think about that for a

505
00:27:47,479 --> 00:27:45,119
second all right tonight very special

506
00:27:49,940 --> 00:27:47,489
guest Harry Lovelace he's here former

507
00:27:52,489 --> 00:27:49,950
attorney general assistant attorney

508
00:27:55,009 --> 00:27:52,499
general a lawyer and we're gonna talk

509
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:55,019
about his amazing encounter and his new

510
00:27:59,560 --> 00:27:57,690
book incident at Devil's Den tomorrow

511
00:28:04,399 --> 00:27:59,570
night Rob Potter's gonna be here and

512
00:28:06,859 --> 00:28:04,409
what I wanted to mention because I did

513
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:06,869
watch it last night after the show was

514
00:28:18,289 --> 00:28:12,570
the summit over in North Korea and the

515
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,299
media the media is trying to

516
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:21,360
both by all the media by the way both

517
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:23,880
both both the right in the left in the

518
00:28:26,930 --> 00:28:25,290
center are trying to make this like

519
00:28:29,150 --> 00:28:26,940
nothing happened and it was a big

520
00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:29,160
nothing burger and and why didn't this

521
00:28:36,350 --> 00:28:30,740
happen to why didn't this happen

522
00:28:42,980 --> 00:28:36,360
I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not there I'm

523
00:28:47,409 --> 00:28:42,990
not in that camp I don't know and it to

524
00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:47,419
me it doesn't matter I don't know why

525
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:51,780
Trump is being nice I'm camera and

526
00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:54,240
everything else but he got the

527
00:29:00,169 --> 00:28:57,270
conversation started and when I think

528
00:29:03,950 --> 00:29:00,179
about where we were you know three

529
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:03,960
months ago with missiles being fired and

530
00:29:09,409 --> 00:29:06,510
and crazy videos of the United States

531
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:09,419
getting blown up and threatening Hawaii

532
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:11,940
and Guam with nuclear destruction and

533
00:29:18,110 --> 00:29:15,480
you know oh you know to go from that in

534
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:18,120
such a short period to this I really

535
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:20,010
don't care how we got here to be honest

536
00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:25,140
with you and I hope that things continue

537
00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:29,030
I really really really do the media is

538
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:31,140
really trying to turn this into a

539
00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:35,370
negative thing and I'm not buying it hey

540
00:29:41,539 --> 00:29:36,900
you know I never buy what the media is

541
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:41,549
selling but right now it's it's like too

542
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:45,840
obvious and I think generally I think in

543
00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:48,030
a general sense I think that most of us

544
00:29:52,730 --> 00:29:51,150
know or feel that North Korea ain't

545
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:52,740
gonna give up their stuff we're gonna

546
00:29:58,130 --> 00:29:54,570
have to really pry it out of their cold

547
00:30:02,539 --> 00:29:58,140
dead hands but nonetheless things are

548
00:30:04,909 --> 00:30:02,549
toning down and maybe just maybe amazing

549
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:04,919
stuff will come out of all of this and

550
00:30:09,890 --> 00:30:07,260
we've got to stay positive I'm not

551
00:30:11,539 --> 00:30:09,900
buying the negative side that's just me

552
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:11,549
fade to black Camaros Jimmy Church

553
00:30:17,270 --> 00:30:15,000
tonight Terry Lovelace stay right there

554
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:17,280
I'll be right back on the game changer

555
00:30:21,770 --> 00:30:20,250
Network and Katie RA the planet this is

556
00:30:41,949 --> 00:30:21,780
fade the block I'll be right back

557
00:30:44,989 --> 00:30:41,959
[Music]

558
00:30:48,369 --> 00:30:44,999
you're listening to Jimmy Church fade to

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fade to black will now pause for a

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past the hump try our products that get

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can send us a testimony but we just

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[Music]

616
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:48,190
hi this is Rob Reiner from anvil and

617
00:33:55,530 --> 00:33:49,810
you're listening to Jimmy Church

618
00:34:12,189 --> 00:33:55,540
radio.com comments and we're listening

619
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:14,530
[Music]

620
00:34:20,330 --> 00:34:17,810
all right let's go

621
00:34:23,899 --> 00:34:20,340
fade to black I'm heels Jimmy Church you

622
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:23,909
can follow me on Twitter at Jay Church

623
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:30,690
radio simple @j turns radio great week

624
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:33,240
here on the show and tonight Terry

625
00:34:38,350 --> 00:34:35,580
Lovelace is here waiting for this

626
00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:38,360
evening for a very long time

627
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:43,080
author of incident at Devil's Den Terry

628
00:34:48,379 --> 00:34:45,179
is a lawyer former assistant attorney

629
00:34:51,470 --> 00:34:48,389
general Terry was active duty in the Air

630
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:51,480
Force from 1973 to 1979 and trained as a

631
00:34:56,930 --> 00:34:54,450
medic and an EMT his entire enlistment

632
00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:56,940
was spent at Whiteman Air Force Base in

633
00:35:01,310 --> 00:34:59,580
western Missouri Terry has a bachelor's

634
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:01,320
degree in psychology at Park University

635
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:04,320
and a Juris Doctor from Western Michigan

636
00:35:09,110 --> 00:35:07,410
University and mr. Lovelace was in an

637
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,120
assistant attorney general for the u.s.

638
00:35:15,980 --> 00:35:11,280
territory of American Samoa and the

639
00:35:20,330 --> 00:35:15,990
state of Vermont in 2012 a routine x-ray

640
00:35:23,570 --> 00:35:20,340
of Terry's leg found a bit of metal the

641
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:23,580
size of a fingernail with two tiny wires

642
00:35:29,090 --> 00:35:27,030
attached what followed were horrific

643
00:35:31,940 --> 00:35:29,100
nightmares spontaneous recall and

644
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:31,950
intrusive thoughts surrounding a 1977

645
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:34,320
camping trip that he took with a friend

646
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:36,570
to Devil's Den State Park in northern

647
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,450
Arkansas his book is called incident at

648
00:35:45,620 --> 00:35:41,760
Devil's Den compelling proof of alien

649
00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:45,630
existence alleged USAF involvement and

650
00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:48,630
an alien implant discovered accidentally

651
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:50,940
on x-ray and I would like to welcome for

652
00:35:55,850 --> 00:35:53,130
the first time to fade to black mr.

653
00:35:57,950 --> 00:35:55,860
Terry Lovelace esq by the way good

654
00:36:00,200 --> 00:35:57,960
evening Terry how are you hi good

655
00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:00,210
evening Jimmy it's nice to be here it's

656
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:02,340
a pleasure to be here finally well you

657
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:05,610
know I feel a little intimidated you're

658
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:07,410
the first assistant attorney general

659
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:09,720
I've had on the show so I've done

660
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:10,640
nothing wrong

661
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:19,050
the thing you're a first-time guest and

662
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:21,060
we've waited way too many years to get

663
00:36:23,569 --> 00:36:22,380
you on the show we talked about that

664
00:36:25,819 --> 00:36:23,579
earlier

665
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:25,829
you are first-time guests so you get the

666
00:36:30,049 --> 00:36:28,950
first-time guests disclaimer the next

667
00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:30,059
time you're on the show you're not gonna

668
00:36:33,979 --> 00:36:31,529
get it but you get the honor tonight

669
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:33,989
which is this it's just you and I

670
00:36:37,789 --> 00:36:36,180
sitting on my couch having a

671
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,799
conversation as friends and where that

672
00:36:41,479 --> 00:36:39,599
conversation starts it starts where it

673
00:36:42,049 --> 00:36:41,489
ends it ends but we're gonna end as

674
00:36:44,180 --> 00:36:42,059
friends

675
00:36:51,799 --> 00:36:44,190
all right simple enough you ready to go

676
00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:51,809
I am now oh man okay I almost want to

677
00:36:57,819 --> 00:36:56,670
start at the end and then go back to the

678
00:37:00,709 --> 00:36:57,829
beginning

679
00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:00,719
okay so let's kind of start there now

680
00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:04,140
you have sent us some pretty amazing

681
00:37:11,749 --> 00:37:08,099
images of the X rays and some other

682
00:37:13,219 --> 00:37:11,759
stuff is it okay if we post those yes

683
00:37:16,910 --> 00:37:13,229
please do okay

684
00:37:21,859 --> 00:37:16,920
all right so but going to make more

685
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:21,869
sense if I start actually in 1979 well

686
00:37:28,789 --> 00:37:26,640
okay well yeah and we'll do that but

687
00:37:33,969 --> 00:37:28,799
without what I meant by starting at the

688
00:37:37,549 --> 00:37:33,979
end was that for somebody like yourself

689
00:37:40,219 --> 00:37:37,559
in public service and certainly you know

690
00:37:45,499 --> 00:37:40,229
an Air Force career and in a career in

691
00:37:47,779 --> 00:37:45,509
law you didn't have to come forward even

692
00:37:51,019 --> 00:37:47,789
though you've had the memories and

693
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:51,029
you've seen the x-rays you don't need to

694
00:37:57,499 --> 00:37:53,940
come forward you're you're retired life

695
00:38:00,349 --> 00:37:57,509
is good you know what I mean you didn't

696
00:38:02,749 --> 00:38:00,359
have to that's not had any intention of

697
00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:02,759
coming forward you know I intended to

698
00:38:09,289 --> 00:38:04,920
take this to my grave that's right and

699
00:38:12,769 --> 00:38:09,299
why didn't you as a matter of fact three

700
00:38:15,949 --> 00:38:12,779
years ago three or four years ago we

701
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:15,959
don't have to discuss how you know how I

702
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:18,180
was told about your case but when I was

703
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:21,420
told about you back then you hadn't come

704
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:23,880
forward yet and you hadn't made up your

705
00:38:30,140 --> 00:38:27,119
mind and I was pushing to have you come

706
00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:30,150
forward and but I respected your privacy

707
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:32,430
but then you decided to go ahead and

708
00:38:34,549 --> 00:38:33,690
write the book and come out and I'm glad

709
00:38:36,460 --> 00:38:34,559
that you did

710
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:36,470
but what what

711
00:38:43,470 --> 00:38:39,130
cause the decision why why the change

712
00:38:49,089 --> 00:38:43,480
you know after 40 years of silence I

713
00:38:51,609 --> 00:38:49,099
felt angry I felt like you know these

714
00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:51,619
things whatever they are that put their

715
00:38:57,130 --> 00:38:54,080
hands on me and put this thing in my leg

716
00:39:00,040 --> 00:38:57,140
right I kept their secret for 40-plus

717
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:00,050
years and you know this is how they

718
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:02,150
repay me you know with screaming

719
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:05,510
nightmares and yeah it just got to the

720
00:39:11,650 --> 00:39:09,440
point where I thought the right thing to

721
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:11,660
do was to disclose it and disclose

722
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:15,410
everything right right right Terry can

723
00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:17,450
you do me a favor and I hate to say

724
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:19,880
something like this on the radio but

725
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:23,090
hold your microphones still yes okay

726
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:24,770
yeah just hold it still it's moving

727
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:31,790
around in in your experience in law the

728
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:35,210
evidence that you have now not only

729
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:38,930
through memories and your testimony but

730
00:39:44,829 --> 00:39:41,089
you have some physical evidence too is

731
00:39:49,839 --> 00:39:44,839
that good enough in court to use as

732
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:49,849
evidence to prove your case I think I

733
00:39:56,260 --> 00:39:52,550
could I I think if you gave me 12 men

734
00:39:57,940 --> 00:39:56,270
and women on a jury right then I could

735
00:40:00,220 --> 00:39:57,950
that I could present the evidence I

736
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:00,230
could present the x-rays I could present

737
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:02,510
the photograph of my niece showing

738
00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:08,000
there's no scar yeah I think I could do

739
00:40:12,310 --> 00:40:10,070
that I'm confident I could do that and I

740
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:12,320
think I did that yeah there's no

741
00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:14,150
question about it the evidence is

742
00:40:20,589 --> 00:40:17,990
overwhelming and and the the book is a

743
00:40:22,839 --> 00:40:20,599
great read by the way it's it's really

744
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:22,849
well written and I it's highly

745
00:40:27,339 --> 00:40:24,440
recommended and we've got all the links

746
00:40:30,460 --> 00:40:27,349
up over at your maturity Oh calm where

747
00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:30,470
to go and get the book so that being

748
00:40:36,310 --> 00:40:31,670
said I find that very interesting

749
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:36,320
because I know that as a lawyer you were

750
00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:39,050
a defense attorney too as well but you

751
00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:40,670
know Attorney General now you're in the

752
00:40:46,329 --> 00:40:42,260
process on the opposite side right

753
00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:46,339
you're prosecuting yeah and so you are

754
00:40:49,460 --> 00:40:48,380
presented with cases all the time that

755
00:40:52,490 --> 00:40:49,470
either have

756
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,500
that is strong enough or not and you are

757
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:54,960
telling people all the time and we don't

758
00:40:59,930 --> 00:40:57,660
have anything here when you know that

759
00:41:02,870 --> 00:40:59,940
something has happened and you know but

760
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:02,880
there's not enough there or you're

761
00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:04,650
handed stuff that has got all the

762
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:06,270
evidence in the world and you know that

763
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:08,730
you're gonna get your conviction and you

764
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:10,530
know or not you know if you're a defense

765
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:13,260
attorney but you are presented this

766
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:15,690
stuff all the time and you feel that in

767
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:17,730
your case you've got all you've got

768
00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:19,650
everything that you would need perfect

769
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:21,960
yeah that's a great observation I'll

770
00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:24,570
tell you I 2012 they discovered this

771
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:27,300
thing and and for two years I was I was

772
00:41:31,460 --> 00:41:29,430
really in denial about it I just could

773
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:31,470
not come to grips with it

774
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:36,180
and what the tipping point was and

775
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:38,280
people asked what you know how can you

776
00:41:44,510 --> 00:41:41,490
remember all this in such detail and the

777
00:41:46,970 --> 00:41:44,520
reason is is that when I returned from

778
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:46,980
our camping trip you know we were we

779
00:41:53,060 --> 00:41:48,570
were injured and we were under

780
00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:53,070
investigation by the OSI and I thought

781
00:41:58,070 --> 00:41:55,140
it would be prudent to document

782
00:42:00,980 --> 00:41:58,080
everything everything that happened and

783
00:42:02,510 --> 00:42:00,990
I did because I thought you know if I'm

784
00:42:05,770 --> 00:42:02,520
gonna I'm going to be court-martialed

785
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:05,780
for something I want to have a record

786
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:09,690
and then afterward when the nightmares

787
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:12,930
began my wife suggested to me why don't

788
00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:15,210
you keep a journal of these nightmares

789
00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:18,180
and I started doing that and I did that

790
00:42:25,250 --> 00:42:21,390
diligently and it was a replay of all

791
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:25,260
these horrific memories just played over

792
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:28,800
and over again but I chatted all that

793
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:31,560
down those notebooks my wife kept and in

794
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:34,290
2016 we thought they were lost in 2016

795
00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:36,089
she flew to Michigan to her storage

796
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:39,060
locker we have there and she found my

797
00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:42,210
notebooks were there and some drawings

798
00:42:49,070 --> 00:42:45,750
that I had made were still there and

799
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:49,080
back and that's that's what that's what

800
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:51,119
gave me the evidence that's what gave me

801
00:42:58,220 --> 00:42:56,220
what I needed that was my father

802
00:43:01,220 --> 00:42:58,230
graduated from Western Michigan by the

803
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:01,230
way did he yeah we lived on the campus

804
00:43:07,970 --> 00:43:03,210
there yeah he graduated in

805
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:07,980
I guess it would have been 71 so have

806
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:11,280
anyone when did you go yeah but I went

807
00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:14,310
late in life I went in 1990 oh you went

808
00:43:20,359 --> 00:43:18,420
1990 right at the top of the hill okay

809
00:43:22,220 --> 00:43:20,369
so where the fountains are right then

810
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:22,230
you know where the clock is right the

811
00:43:29,089 --> 00:43:24,960
fountains there's a road there that goes

812
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:29,099
up the hill and at the top of the hill

813
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:32,760
is redwood drive and we lived on that

814
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:35,970
corner and I so from our front yard I

815
00:43:42,050 --> 00:43:38,250
could look down the hill into the mirror

816
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:42,060
pool Wow yeah I can see that my mind's

817
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,359
eye yeah I know yep yep yep yeah yep

818
00:43:51,470 --> 00:43:47,280
lived right there beautiful campus by

819
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:51,480
the way beautiful beautiful okay so you

820
00:43:59,839 --> 00:43:54,810
wanted to go to 1979 first and so let's

821
00:44:04,089 --> 00:43:59,849
do that why go to 1979 because when I

822
00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:04,099
left the Air Force I took up running

823
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:10,560
they called it jogging and they did yes

824
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:12,810
you know you know if you think about it

825
00:44:17,329 --> 00:44:14,400
if you look at old pictures and movies

826
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:17,339
you don't see anybody who's running

827
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:20,250
who's not on an an athletic field or

828
00:44:23,810 --> 00:44:21,750
running away from something

829
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:23,820
I mean people running out in the street

830
00:44:31,970 --> 00:44:29,460
was kind of a new concept so I started

831
00:44:34,250 --> 00:44:31,980
running and I noticed when I hit the 2

832
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:34,260
mile mark and my run give or take a

833
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:36,810
hundred yards for 50 yards every time

834
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:39,570
there was a spot on my knee and my right

835
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:43,650
thigh that would go totally numb Wow and

836
00:44:50,660 --> 00:44:47,250
I could take a pin when I finished my

837
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:50,670
run and define the outline it was

838
00:44:57,020 --> 00:44:53,220
circular about the size of a half dollar

839
00:44:59,660 --> 00:44:57,030
and every single time that I did my run

840
00:45:02,599 --> 00:44:59,670
and hit that 2 mile mark that numb spot

841
00:45:05,180 --> 00:45:02,609
I called it would come would come back

842
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:05,190
and I asked a doctor about it 1980 he's

843
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:06,510
like you know it doesn't bother you

844
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:07,770
don't worry about it

845
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:10,170
right so I didn't they didn't for 40

846
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:12,830
years but when they took that x-ray and

847
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:15,000
it didn't hit me until I'm on the way

848
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:17,010
home and it's like that's

849
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,260
right underneath the nun spot and I made

850
00:45:27,620 --> 00:45:24,000
that connection and then thought well

851
00:45:32,990 --> 00:45:27,630
that has to have been in my leg at least

852
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:33,000
as far back as 1979 right right you sent

853
00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:37,920
us a couple of images of what you sent

854
00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:41,340
us a bunch of the x-rays Rita is gonna

855
00:45:47,930 --> 00:45:45,030
post these and I want the audience to

856
00:45:52,970 --> 00:45:47,940
look at these as we're discuss we're

857
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:52,980
discussing this when the doctor looked

858
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:54,540
at the x-ray just like you being a

859
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:56,100
lawyer when you're looking down at

860
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:57,770
evidence and you have that aha moment

861
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:00,720
you may not necessarily discuss it with

862
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:03,210
your client but your mind gets going

863
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:05,220
you're putting the puzzle pieces

864
00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:08,640
together what was your doctor's reaction

865
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:10,590
when you know he's used to looking at

866
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:14,430
x-rays and looking at stuff and what was

867
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:17,610
his reaction to the reactions the

868
00:46:25,070 --> 00:46:19,950
implants was from the radiologist and

869
00:46:28,070 --> 00:46:25,080
the I was in the x-ray room and the tech

870
00:46:30,110 --> 00:46:28,080
took a set of x-rays came out and asked

871
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,120
mr. laplacian do you have a shrapnel

872
00:46:34,910 --> 00:46:32,160
wound or something yeah I get Mike here

873
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,920
at the VA in a car accident or something

874
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:36,960
that maybe could account for a piece of

875
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:39,300
metal being in your leg and I'm like no

876
00:46:44,570 --> 00:46:42,960
I'm never and she was puzzled and she

877
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:44,580
took a couple more films in a couple

878
00:46:51,740 --> 00:46:47,280
more and in total she took 8 shots of my

879
00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:51,750
knee and she said I'm gonna have the

880
00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:53,940
radiologist come down and look at these

881
00:46:59,570 --> 00:46:56,910
and and he didn't guy came down and he

882
00:47:03,980 --> 00:46:59,580
popped popped one up on the view box the

883
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:03,990
first shot the head-on shot popped it up

884
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:05,700
on the view box and then he went over to

885
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:07,650
me and poked me in the thigh and says

886
00:47:13,310 --> 00:47:10,500
it'll be right here and I said what will

887
00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:13,320
be right here he says your scar there's

888
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:15,150
a scar gonna be right here because

889
00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:16,910
that's where this thing entered your leg

890
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:21,300
and said doctor I don't have a scar ASIS

891
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:23,850
I you know insisted on examining my knee

892
00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:26,130
so I took my pants off again he looked

893
00:47:29,609 --> 00:47:27,750
at my knee he looks kind of confused

894
00:47:32,329 --> 00:47:29,619
he's he has an intern

895
00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:32,339
he says you know get a black light and

896
00:47:38,099 --> 00:47:34,660
she came back with a handheld black

897
00:47:40,890 --> 00:47:38,109
light and he killed the overheads and

898
00:47:44,509 --> 00:47:40,900
searched every inch of my knee every

899
00:47:48,180 --> 00:47:44,519
square inch of my knee for a scar and

900
00:47:50,489 --> 00:47:48,190
there was not there is not and I asked

901
00:47:53,999 --> 00:47:50,499
him I said doctor how often is it that

902
00:47:56,970 --> 00:47:54,009
you find a foreign object embedded in

903
00:48:01,319 --> 00:47:56,980
someone's knee and no corresponding scar

904
00:48:03,210 --> 00:48:01,329
and his answer was never never happened

905
00:48:07,019 --> 00:48:03,220
before never seen it before

906
00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:07,029
your cat is funny I'm sorry oh I love it

907
00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:09,369
oh no no it's totally cool

908
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:15,369
as I'm looking at these the object was

909
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:17,529
you described it about the size of a

910
00:48:27,390 --> 00:48:23,170
fingernail give me some dimensions yes

911
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:27,400
about the size of a fingernail then they

912
00:48:34,819 --> 00:48:31,140
think maybe paper-thin the two wires I

913
00:48:39,539 --> 00:48:34,829
would love to know how far up they go

914
00:48:41,279 --> 00:48:39,549
but I don't have a clue and it hit me

915
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:41,289
afterward that you know well the VA is

916
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:43,450
an entity of the United States

917
00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:46,930
government sure but I can't complain

918
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:48,700
about the quality of care I received

919
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:51,690
from them receive good care from them

920
00:48:57,630 --> 00:48:54,400
but I was only able to secure 2 out of

921
00:49:01,499 --> 00:48:57,640
the 8 x rays and I know that they took

922
00:49:02,849 --> 00:49:01,509
in a film of my leg higher up that's the

923
00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:02,859
film I would've loved to have seen

924
00:49:06,690 --> 00:49:04,329
because that's the film that I think

925
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:06,700
would have shown where those wires led

926
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:15,730
to now when it comes to implants and you

927
00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:18,130
know we all know Derrel Sims and Derrel

928
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:21,190
Sims is a friend of yours and he's you

929
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:22,900
know he's got a collection of them and

930
00:49:31,259 --> 00:49:27,249
and others out there I've always wanted

931
00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:31,269
that compelling thing it like wires you

932
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:33,460
know something that would end yours had

933
00:49:40,799 --> 00:49:38,170
those how long were the two wires well

934
00:49:43,260 --> 00:49:40,809
you know they they are as long as as the

935
00:49:45,390 --> 00:49:43,270
x-ray allows that's what I'm saying we

936
00:49:49,710 --> 00:49:45,400
we don't know because they end at the

937
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:49,720
top of that film so there was a film

938
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:52,270
that shows my knee from above that point

939
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:55,690
and and I don't have it and I would love

940
00:49:58,859 --> 00:49:57,130
to have that because that's the film

941
00:50:01,490 --> 00:49:58,869
that would show how far up those those

942
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:01,500
wires went absolutely incredible

943
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:07,180
absolutely incredible and now you had

944
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:14,040
the implant removed well kind of

945
00:50:23,010 --> 00:50:20,890
continued in 2017 and this is this is

946
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:23,020
this is a little tough to wrap your head

947
00:50:33,210 --> 00:50:30,610
around I woke up and sitting in my

948
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:33,220
living room sitting bolt upright in my

949
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:37,810
chair and seated across from me is what

950
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:40,690
I first took to be an Asian woman about

951
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:45,760
four feet tall seated on my sofa get a

952
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:50,530
non-threatening posture and I looked at

953
00:50:57,830 --> 00:50:53,650
her and I refer to her in the book as

954
00:51:01,620 --> 00:50:57,840
Betty and what's interesting is mr. Sims

955
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:01,630
Betty has been spotted in Houston for

956
00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:06,250
the past 40 years same entity I drew a

957
00:51:12,270 --> 00:51:08,680
picture of her and it's spot-on to what

958
00:51:14,820 --> 00:51:12,280
he has pictures from other people and

959
00:51:20,849 --> 00:51:14,830
this scent that he sat in my bed my in

960
00:51:26,190 --> 00:51:20,859
my living room and I was scared to death

961
00:51:30,810 --> 00:51:26,200
and they communicate telepathically so

962
00:51:34,140 --> 00:51:30,820
my first thought was my god that rig

963
00:51:38,820 --> 00:51:34,150
looks ridiculous that's you can't

964
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:38,830
control your thoughts and she fired back

965
00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:41,650
into my head immediately I heard crystal

966
00:51:44,250 --> 00:51:42,220
clear

967
00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:44,260
it's the lad it's the same as the last

968
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:49,390
time and I asked then I thought the last

969
00:51:59,200 --> 00:51:56,930
time went and she said 1987

970
00:52:06,599 --> 00:51:59,210
I had some missing time during a

971
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:06,609
motorcycle ride in 1987 right and I I

972
00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:10,160
was scared to death because I I thought

973
00:52:14,049 --> 00:52:11,390
you know are these am I gonna be

974
00:52:17,170 --> 00:52:14,059
abducted again I mean you know I have to

975
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:17,180
go through that torture again and she

976
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:19,280
immediately fired back and said no you

977
00:52:24,190 --> 00:52:20,690
know you're not gonna be taken tonight

978
00:52:26,020 --> 00:52:24,200
uh and I I thought you know I wish I

979
00:52:27,579 --> 00:52:26,030
could get a better look at her face and

980
00:52:30,190 --> 00:52:27,589
as soon as I thought that she took her

981
00:52:32,650 --> 00:52:30,200
glasses they had oversized glasses on

982
00:52:37,690 --> 00:52:32,660
and I could see her face and her face

983
00:52:43,650 --> 00:52:37,700
was familiar and I knew this woman this

984
00:52:47,410 --> 00:52:43,660
entity I knew her and I believed that

985
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:47,420
this is the same creature entity hybrid

986
00:52:56,170 --> 00:52:50,690
whatever you want to call her that I met

987
00:52:59,470 --> 00:52:56,180
as a child and again in 1987 now I don't

988
00:53:03,010 --> 00:52:59,480
recall her being part of the 1977

989
00:53:05,980 --> 00:53:03,020
abduction right and I had no memory of

990
00:53:06,460 --> 00:53:05,990
the 1987 event other than what she told

991
00:53:11,859 --> 00:53:06,470
me

992
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:11,869
but you knew her I did yeah yeah instant

993
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:15,530
recognition I find it very interesting

994
00:53:25,359 --> 00:53:18,880
and compelling that you are saying her

995
00:53:29,049 --> 00:53:25,369
so it when you say hybrid but was there

996
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:29,059
enough there that could she passes human

997
00:53:36,970 --> 00:53:33,020
could she walk down the street she yes

998
00:53:40,539 --> 00:53:36,980
yes very oversized glasses she would

999
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:40,549
appear to be a middle-aged Asian woman

1000
00:53:46,450 --> 00:53:43,970
right yeah I think she could walk down

1001
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:46,460
the streets of Dallas and in that drawer

1002
00:53:48,970 --> 00:53:47,450
crowd yeah

1003
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:48,980
now we're gonna be headed towards a

1004
00:53:54,339 --> 00:53:52,160
break and I when we come back we're

1005
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:54,349
gonna go back to 1977 we're gonna talk

1006
00:54:00,549 --> 00:53:55,730
about Devil's Den and we're gonna go

1007
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:00,559
through all of those situations that you

1008
00:54:03,579 --> 00:54:01,849
went through we're gonna do that in just

1009
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:03,589
a second but I want to stay with her

1010
00:54:07,390 --> 00:54:06,710
before the break were you were you

1011
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:07,400
scared

1012
00:54:14,730 --> 00:54:09,890
or were you comfortable

1013
00:54:18,220 --> 00:54:14,740
you know I was terrified at first and

1014
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:18,230
then I felt this calm wash over me right

1015
00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:21,050
and I had experienced that before I had

1016
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:24,740
experienced that back in 1977 whenever

1017
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:26,810
we first saw this thing in the sky and

1018
00:54:32,020 --> 00:54:28,910
I'll get to that but I had this feeling

1019
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,030
of calm wash over me and my wife is

1020
00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:33,920
asleep in a bedroom just down the hall

1021
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:38,150
and I think I could yell for her and I

1022
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:39,590
thought you know no they got that they

1023
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:43,850
got that handle to right they do so

1024
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:46,010
we're did that were they was she there

1025
00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:51,370
for the implant she was there to ask me

1026
00:54:58,480 --> 00:54:54,230
not to write the book and to talk

1027
00:55:01,450 --> 00:54:58,490
publicly and I said what in the world

1028
00:55:03,340 --> 00:55:01,460
Who am I what makes my story any

1029
00:55:06,550 --> 00:55:03,350
different from anybody else there are

1030
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:06,560
hundred books out there of people that

1031
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:08,150
have experienced the same thing that

1032
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:20,470
her hosts she refers to aliens as her

1033
00:55:24,430 --> 00:55:23,450
hosts no I don't know why but that's the

1034
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:24,440
word she used

1035
00:55:29,860 --> 00:55:27,920
it's an ADD word I mean it could be you

1036
00:55:33,250 --> 00:55:29,870
know like a host welcoming a dinner

1037
00:55:36,490 --> 00:55:33,260
party it could be a a parasitic

1038
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:36,500
relationship but she referred to the

1039
00:55:42,610 --> 00:55:40,250
aliens as her host and she said if you

1040
00:55:44,170 --> 00:55:42,620
write this book and continue to speak

1041
00:55:47,290 --> 00:55:44,180
they're going to come back and retrieve

1042
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,300
these things from your legs and I said

1043
00:55:55,540 --> 00:55:50,480
legs I had no idea I had one in my left

1044
00:55:58,600 --> 00:55:55,550
leg and I thought when you communicate

1045
00:55:59,320 --> 00:55:58,610
telepathically you cannot cannot control

1046
00:56:03,460 --> 00:55:59,330
your thought

1047
00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:03,470
no because and before I can finish a

1048
00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:07,670
thought she would answer me it's amazing

1049
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:13,550
do you say amazing I say creepy yeah

1050
00:56:18,250 --> 00:56:16,430
because you're naked right that's it you

1051
00:56:20,570 --> 00:56:18,260
can't control your thoughts and whatever

1052
00:56:23,780 --> 00:56:20,580
is gonna go through your mind every

1053
00:56:25,850 --> 00:56:23,790
he knows and you know I asked her that I

1054
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:25,860
addressed that issue of privacy I said

1055
00:56:31,310 --> 00:56:28,110
I'm not used to having my thoughts open

1056
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:31,320
right and she said just try it here you

1057
00:56:36,940 --> 00:56:33,810
can keep them private if you try now I

1058
00:56:43,610 --> 00:56:36,950
think she said that just to placate me

1059
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:43,620
yeah if if everybody had telepathy could

1060
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:45,930
you imagine going into a restaurant how

1061
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:49,740
noisy that would be right in order to

1062
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:52,410
mean or a rock concert you know the

1063
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:56,720
shopping mall some crowded area or work

1064
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:00,960
you know yeah I don't know so there must

1065
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:06,210
be a way to block it out I guess but you

1066
00:57:09,410 --> 00:57:07,680
know you you would ask I was gonna say

1067
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:09,420
about the implants I had to thought

1068
00:57:15,350 --> 00:57:11,850
about the implants I said you know these

1069
00:57:16,970 --> 00:57:15,360
things in my leg my god yeah I thought

1070
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:16,980
crossed my mind how many people have you

1071
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:20,010
put these things in and and her answer

1072
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,410
just blew me away she said many

1073
00:57:28,910 --> 00:57:25,440
thousands over three generations many

1074
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:28,920
thousands over at least well that's a

1075
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:29,610
big number

1076
00:57:36,620 --> 00:57:34,530
but she could have said everybody she

1077
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:36,630
could have said everybody let's take a

1078
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:39,090
break right here Terry and when we come

1079
00:57:43,370 --> 00:57:42,510
back we're gonna go back to 1977 we're

1080
00:57:47,390 --> 00:57:43,380
gonna start there

1081
00:57:49,370 --> 00:57:47,400
why Devil's Den and Devil's Den there's

1082
00:57:51,380 --> 00:57:49,380
been a lot of things going on up there

1083
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:51,390
over the years too as well well we'll

1084
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:53,400
address all of that our guest tonight

1085
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:56,240
Terry Lovelace for discussing his book

1086
00:58:01,610 --> 00:57:59,010
incident at Devil's Den compelling proof

1087
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:01,620
of alien existence this is fade to black

1088
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:03,690
I'm yours Jimmy Church on the game

1089
00:58:08,910 --> 00:58:07,470
changer network and kg RA the planet

1090
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:08,920
stay with us

1091
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,190
this is fade to black

1092
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:31,119
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1093
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:34,810
radio network and kgr a the global radio

1094
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:39,040
alliance this is kg are a digital

1095
00:58:45,540 --> 00:58:42,160
broadcasting station Salt Lake City Utah

1096
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:45,550
Van Buren Arkansas does your basement or

1097
00:58:49,410 --> 00:58:47,680
crawlspace have a damp musty smell well

1098
00:58:51,570 --> 00:58:49,420
watch out that's a sign of too much

1099
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:51,580
moisture and not enough ventilation and

1100
00:58:55,530 --> 00:58:53,410
that can mean increased mold growth and

1101
00:58:57,810 --> 00:58:55,540
the build-up of harmful toxins and gases

1102
00:58:59,940 --> 00:58:57,820
don't bother with a dehumidifier it just

1103
00:59:01,740 --> 00:58:59,950
circulates the same unhealthy air now

1104
00:59:03,630 --> 00:59:01,750
there's a better way to remove these

1105
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:03,640
dangers and odors it's with the

1106
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:06,010
computerized wave moisture control unit

1107
00:59:09,450 --> 00:59:07,810
that reduces moisture and expels

1108
00:59:11,430 --> 00:59:09,460
pollutants we replaced our old

1109
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:11,440
dehumidifier with the wave unit and in

1110
00:59:16,109 --> 00:59:13,720
only three weeks our basement is dry and

1111
00:59:18,090 --> 00:59:16,119
the musty smell is gone wave units

1112
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:18,100
require no maintenance no buckets of

1113
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:20,530
water or filters and costs only pennies

1114
00:59:24,210 --> 00:59:22,450
a day to run breathe better live

1115
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:24,220
healthier with an affordable no

1116
00:59:28,980 --> 00:59:26,650
maintenance wave unit call eight eight

1117
00:59:32,310 --> 00:59:28,990
eight seven one seven way eight eight

1118
00:59:37,230 --> 00:59:32,320
eight seven one seven wav e or visit dry

1119
00:59:40,030 --> 00:59:37,240
healthy home comm dry healthy home calm

1120
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:40,040
[Music]

1121
00:59:51,140 --> 00:59:40,890
Solutions

1122
00:59:55,650 --> 00:59:53,790
hi this is Ray sobs here reppin the

1123
00:59:58,650 --> 00:59:55,660
planet and you're listening to my good

1124
01:00:01,200 --> 00:59:58,660
friend Jimmy Church fade to black

1125
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:01,210
on the GameChanger network and the kgr a

1126
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:05,770
digital broadcast station this is Toby

1127
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:07,930
Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy Church

1128
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:26,770
radio calm Jimmy Jimmy Church revolution

1129
01:00:30,599 --> 01:00:28,930
this is Micah Hanks of the graylien

1130
01:00:32,940 --> 01:00:30,609
report and you're listening to Jimmy

1131
01:00:34,770 --> 01:00:32,950
church on fade to black across the globe

1132
01:00:38,180 --> 01:00:34,780
on the game-changer radio network and

1133
01:00:58,079 --> 01:00:38,190
the one and only kgr a radio the planet

1134
01:01:00,190 --> 01:00:58,089
[Music]

1135
01:01:02,260 --> 01:01:00,200
welcome back fade to black I'm here

1136
01:01:05,950 --> 01:01:02,270
Jimmy Church I guess tonight

1137
01:01:08,290 --> 01:01:05,960
Terry Lovelace talking about his book it

1138
01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:08,300
is called incident at Devil's Den

1139
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:10,400
compelling proof of alien existence

1140
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:12,079
alleged the United States Air Force

1141
01:01:18,460 --> 01:01:14,720
involvement and an alien implant

1142
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,470
discovered accidentally on x-ray Terry

1143
01:01:25,599 --> 01:01:21,220
is an attorney and former attorney

1144
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:25,609
general assistant attorney general how

1145
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:27,440
long were you at the assistant attorney

1146
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:29,569
general for the state of Vermont

1147
01:01:37,390 --> 01:01:35,119
Terry five years five years but that's

1148
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,400
that's a pretty intense gig you know I

1149
01:01:43,210 --> 01:01:39,440
don't know how much action goes down in

1150
01:01:45,940 --> 01:01:43,220
Vermont but nonetheless yeah you know it

1151
01:01:48,609 --> 01:01:45,950
it was and you know I had an opportunity

1152
01:01:51,579 --> 01:01:48,619
to retire early and I had some heart

1153
01:01:54,730 --> 01:01:51,589
problems and I thought you know I'm

1154
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:54,740
gonna do this I'm gonna retire and it

1155
01:02:00,250 --> 01:01:57,770
was the right decision i watch the TV

1156
01:02:02,740 --> 01:02:00,260
show billions right it's it's pretty

1157
01:02:05,950 --> 01:02:02,750
cool and they had the season finale last

1158
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:05,960
night but it's all about the AG the

1159
01:02:12,460 --> 01:02:08,089
assistant AG the Southern District

1160
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:12,470
Manhattan right that's that's about as

1161
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:16,010
an intense of a gig as anyone could

1162
01:02:21,849 --> 01:02:17,569
encounter in it you know at the federal

1163
01:02:27,099 --> 01:02:21,859
level like that lots of pressure and for

1164
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:27,109
you if if if another assistant AG came

1165
01:02:36,190 --> 01:02:31,490
in and said to you a story similar to

1166
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:36,200
yours what would you think I mean this

1167
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:39,890
person is crazy or did you have an open

1168
01:02:43,539 --> 01:02:41,930
mind and and you would sit down and

1169
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:43,549
listen to somebody with an experience

1170
01:02:47,410 --> 01:02:45,650
like this I wouldn't believe a word of

1171
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:47,420
it yeah I throw them out of my office

1172
01:02:52,660 --> 01:02:49,420
right right right

1173
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:52,670
this hasn't happened to me I mean I can

1174
01:02:56,589 --> 01:02:54,710
understand why people are skeptical I

1175
01:02:59,079 --> 01:02:56,599
would be skeptical if it hadn't happened

1176
01:03:02,380 --> 01:02:59,089
to me right but it did

1177
01:03:07,630 --> 01:03:02,390
now why Devil's Den let's go back to

1178
01:03:11,290 --> 01:03:07,640
1977 how old were you in 77 I was 22

1179
01:03:14,620 --> 01:03:11,300
years old in the Air Force yes

1180
01:03:18,130 --> 01:03:14,630
the air force and why did you guys pick

1181
01:03:21,820 --> 01:03:18,140
Devil's Den at the time I was working

1182
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:21,830
with I was working in the emergency room

1183
01:03:26,020 --> 01:03:23,450
with a good friend of mine we worked the

1184
01:03:29,710 --> 01:03:26,030
night shift Wow three and a half years

1185
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:29,720
or so driving an ambulance together and

1186
01:03:35,260 --> 01:03:33,170
we were a team and over the time we

1187
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:35,270
worked together we became friends and

1188
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:37,370
socialized I referred to him as Tobias

1189
01:03:43,390 --> 01:03:40,880
in the book right and we became you know

1190
01:03:45,850 --> 01:03:43,400
good good friends we socialized barbecue

1191
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:45,860
you know played cards his wife knew my

1192
01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:50,090
wife etc and one day he came to me in

1193
01:03:56,850 --> 01:03:53,180
the spring of 77 and said hey man I got

1194
01:03:59,650 --> 01:03:56,860
an idea let's go camping I said what you

1195
01:04:01,450 --> 01:03:59,660
nuts Toby we're City boys I mean you

1196
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:01,460
know I grew up in st. Louis you grew up

1197
01:04:07,150 --> 01:04:03,650
in Flint what do we know about camping

1198
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:07,160
right and he knew that I was an amateur

1199
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:10,400
photographer edible black and white

1200
01:04:17,370 --> 01:04:13,910
darkroom set up in my home and I love to

1201
01:04:21,340 --> 01:04:17,380
take photographs of Eagles and wildlife

1202
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:21,350
and you know within 30 minutes within an

1203
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:23,090
hour of Whiteman Air Force Base there

1204
01:04:28,570 --> 01:04:26,210
are half a dozen beautiful parks but

1205
01:04:31,780 --> 01:04:28,580
Toby was insistent he said man this is

1206
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:31,790
the place we have to go and I'm like you

1207
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:33,650
know Toby it's a long way to go why why

1208
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:35,930
why go down there and he says just just

1209
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:41,450
think about and I did and I and the

1210
01:04:46,270 --> 01:04:44,090
thought of it I was dismissive of it at

1211
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:46,280
first and in 48 hours something well

1212
01:04:51,370 --> 01:04:47,570
maybe it might be fun

1213
01:04:59,620 --> 01:04:51,380
and then it's 72 hours I'm like yeah I

1214
01:05:02,860 --> 01:04:59,630
want to go it was a compulsion we felt

1215
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:02,870
compelled to go it reminds me of the

1216
01:05:10,510 --> 01:05:06,170
Dreyfuss in Close Encounters right yeah

1217
01:05:13,660 --> 01:05:10,520
yeah so you guys get camping gear and

1218
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:13,670
you head to Devil's Den we get camping

1219
01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:17,210
gear we drive south across the border

1220
01:05:24,730 --> 01:05:23,630
and there's a campground and Toby's like

1221
01:05:27,310 --> 01:05:24,740
you know

1222
01:05:30,099 --> 01:05:27,320
we don't want to stay at a campground no

1223
01:05:32,260 --> 01:05:30,109
we're supposed to do it's the nine on

1224
01:05:34,300 --> 01:05:32,270
Isis let's have a wilderness adventure

1225
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:34,310
where we are we've never been camping in

1226
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:35,359
our life and he's talking about

1227
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:39,170
wilderness adventure I'm all for it he's

1228
01:05:43,540 --> 01:05:40,730
like let's find a nice place with some

1229
01:05:45,940 --> 01:05:43,550
high ground with nobody around us you

1230
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:45,950
can photograph Eagles he was an amateur

1231
01:05:51,210 --> 01:05:48,130
astronomer he was told he was just

1232
01:05:55,510 --> 01:05:51,220
fixated he lived to watch the night sky

1233
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:55,520
and he said you know I can star watch

1234
01:06:01,150 --> 01:05:59,119
you can take some photographs and you

1235
01:06:03,070 --> 01:06:01,160
know who knows maybe we'll enjoy it

1236
01:06:05,890 --> 01:06:03,080
we'll bring our wives for the next trip

1237
01:06:12,579 --> 01:06:05,900
and Toby just sold me on the idea and

1238
01:06:15,310 --> 01:06:12,589
see it became an obsession to grow so we

1239
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:15,320
we got there we drove down and got there

1240
01:06:20,650 --> 01:06:18,770
and we skirted the park rangers we

1241
01:06:24,910 --> 01:06:20,660
stopped by the visitors center so Toby

1242
01:06:26,589 --> 01:06:24,920
could snag a little map of the park but

1243
01:06:29,079 --> 01:06:26,599
you know he almost didn't need it it was

1244
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:29,089
like he knew where to go I mean in

1245
01:06:35,859 --> 01:06:31,760
retrospect looking back at it after he a

1246
01:06:38,829 --> 01:06:35,869
year - it was an odd series of events

1247
01:06:42,190 --> 01:06:38,839
but he knew where to go I swear to God

1248
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:42,200
and we we went to a part we went to a

1249
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:43,970
part of the park with a road degraded

1250
01:06:52,089 --> 01:06:47,570
from pavement to gravel to just ruts and

1251
01:06:54,609 --> 01:06:52,099
into a chain across the road and Toby

1252
01:06:57,190 --> 01:06:54,619
hopped out the chain had just locked on

1253
01:06:59,770 --> 01:06:57,200
a link are draped around the post so he

1254
01:07:02,200 --> 01:06:59,780
just lifted it up dropped it and we

1255
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:02,210
drove on through where we felt terrific

1256
01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:06,170
and really felt on top of the world and

1257
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:08,089
Toby made a note

1258
01:07:13,300 --> 01:07:09,710
you get took a bank envelope and a

1259
01:07:16,329 --> 01:07:13,310
pencil and kept a map of where we were

1260
01:07:18,220 --> 01:07:16,339
going we didn't know I'm like not

1261
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:18,230
valuable that would be in just a little

1262
01:07:23,290 --> 01:07:21,470
while but he was always the Navigator

1263
01:07:24,190 --> 01:07:23,300
when we drove an ambulance I I have no

1264
01:07:31,839 --> 01:07:24,200
sense of direction

1265
01:07:34,359 --> 01:07:31,849
he he led us up to we were going on our

1266
01:07:36,790 --> 01:07:34,369
steep grade upward and we crested the

1267
01:07:37,660 --> 01:07:36,800
top of this hill and here is this I call

1268
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:37,670
it a meadow

1269
01:07:44,829 --> 01:07:41,210
and there were late blooming wildflowers

1270
01:07:49,089 --> 01:07:44,839
and grass and it was just beautiful and

1271
01:07:51,490 --> 01:07:49,099
it was an ideal place to probably

1272
01:07:52,210 --> 01:07:51,500
photograph Eagles and scenery it was

1273
01:07:55,299 --> 01:07:52,220
gorgeous

1274
01:07:57,460 --> 01:07:55,309
I felt OB I said this is great you know

1275
01:07:59,770 --> 01:07:57,470
what's I wanted to set up camp right in

1276
01:08:01,990 --> 01:07:59,780
the middle of the meadow and he's like

1277
01:08:04,180 --> 01:08:02,000
no no no we can't do that don't did set

1278
01:08:07,420 --> 01:08:04,190
up over here by the edge of the tree

1279
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:07,430
line and we argued about it he was

1280
01:08:14,650 --> 01:08:11,599
insistent and that would be the reason

1281
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:14,660
for that would come out so so later so

1282
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:16,850
we instead of staying in a minute we

1283
01:08:24,519 --> 01:08:20,480
stayed back along the tree line and we

1284
01:08:27,789 --> 01:08:24,529
went Toby wanted to set up camp right

1285
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:27,799
away and I said no no no I want to take

1286
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:29,690
a high okay I want to stretch my legs a

1287
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:32,449
little bit so we took a hike and we

1288
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:33,890
walked and we looked around a little bit

1289
01:08:40,090 --> 01:08:37,210
and there was a limestone Bluffs there

1290
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:40,100
that we got to we did about three or

1291
01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:43,250
four mile hike laid down in this Bluff

1292
01:08:51,039 --> 01:08:47,270
and both of us fell asleep which was

1293
01:08:53,410 --> 01:08:51,049
kind of crazy because I was tired from

1294
01:08:56,559 --> 01:08:53,420
the drive but I wasn't sleepy I

1295
01:08:58,870 --> 01:08:56,569
shouldn't have been drowse hmm but we

1296
01:09:00,519 --> 01:08:58,880
slept for a couple hours and woke up and

1297
01:09:02,769 --> 01:09:00,529
realized hey we better get back and set

1298
01:09:04,380 --> 01:09:02,779
up camp before it gets dark out here or

1299
01:09:06,970 --> 01:09:04,390
lost in the woods

1300
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:06,980
so we hustle when we get back we set up

1301
01:09:13,660 --> 01:09:11,449
a camp and you know we could get a

1302
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:13,670
little three man tent put up I had a

1303
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:16,250
fire put together and we're laying

1304
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:19,250
around in these air mattresses and I'm

1305
01:09:23,769 --> 01:09:21,290
thinking remember I say in the tober you

1306
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:23,779
know this must be the allure of camping

1307
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:26,690
you know we roasted some hot dogs and it

1308
01:09:34,539 --> 01:09:32,210
was nice and I noticed that the forest

1309
01:09:37,329 --> 01:09:34,549
in back of us had been loud there had

1310
01:09:39,970 --> 01:09:37,339
been like tree frogs and crickets and

1311
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:39,980
all the night noises you hear in forest

1312
01:09:49,749 --> 01:09:46,690
life yeah and that almost stopped and

1313
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:49,759
and then we stopped it was calm there

1314
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:51,040
was no breezy

1315
01:09:56,730 --> 01:09:54,610
esse Toby you know the crickets you know

1316
01:09:59,160 --> 01:09:56,740
word rid the crickets in the tree frogs

1317
01:10:00,900 --> 01:09:59,170
going you know what and he's like no I

1318
01:10:02,460 --> 01:10:00,910
don't worry about it he says look we're

1319
01:10:04,170 --> 01:10:02,470
laughing and cutting up he says just

1320
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:04,180
give him a loud they'll be back he'll

1321
01:10:12,180 --> 01:10:10,690
come back but it left me uneasy and they

1322
01:10:15,420 --> 01:10:12,190
change the subject you know and we're

1323
01:10:18,270 --> 01:10:15,430
just we're just chatting and Toby jerks

1324
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:18,280
his head to the left and he's staring at

1325
01:10:24,660 --> 01:10:21,130
something and he asked me says hey were

1326
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:24,670
those theory before and like what are

1327
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:26,770
you talking about it and he points to

1328
01:10:34,170 --> 01:10:30,130
the western sky alone horizon and there

1329
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:34,180
are three stars in the perfect little

1330
01:10:39,930 --> 01:10:38,050
triangle and they are just about they're

1331
01:10:42,650 --> 01:10:39,940
all the same brightness they are just

1332
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:42,660
about as bright as the North Star but

1333
01:10:48,420 --> 01:10:45,610
they're sitting low on the horizon where

1334
01:10:50,730 --> 01:10:48,430
it could have been and we were debating

1335
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:50,740
where these these couldn't be aircraft

1336
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:52,770
lights we knew a little body aircraft

1337
01:10:59,550 --> 01:10:56,050
nothing in that configuration and while

1338
01:11:03,150 --> 01:10:59,560
we're debating this it moves and it

1339
01:11:05,910 --> 01:11:03,160
turns like it's on an axis and that's

1340
01:11:10,260 --> 01:11:05,920
about a three quarter turn and we are

1341
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:10,270
like whoa we're all struck so it it

1342
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:14,770
spins from the center all three just

1343
01:11:21,980 --> 01:11:18,960
just rotate rotate in unison

1344
01:11:25,980 --> 01:11:21,990
wow-whee and then it started to climb

1345
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:25,990
and we're I said Toby if this is three

1346
01:11:30,870 --> 01:11:28,090
independent lights somebody is

1347
01:11:34,230 --> 01:11:30,880
choreographed this beautifully that's

1348
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:34,240
right it's single object and he agreed

1349
01:11:39,870 --> 01:11:37,930
with me and we we watched him and as it

1350
01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:39,880
went up in the sky the higher it got the

1351
01:11:45,980 --> 01:11:42,310
bigger it got and the three points the

1352
01:11:49,140 --> 01:11:45,990
lights just expanded and it just it grew

1353
01:11:52,130 --> 01:11:49,150
this the Stars all remained equidistant

1354
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:52,140
to one another but it got bigger and

1355
01:11:58,740 --> 01:11:55,360
Toby noticed that inside the triangle

1356
01:12:01,940 --> 01:11:58,750
was much darker it was jet black yeah

1357
01:12:04,150 --> 01:12:01,950
you talk about that in the book that as

1358
01:12:05,860 --> 01:12:04,160
it appeared to be

1359
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:05,870
he thought it was three independent

1360
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,930
lights or whatever but now it's passing

1361
01:12:13,630 --> 01:12:10,640
in front of stars and it's blocking out

1362
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:13,640
the stars so now you realize that this

1363
01:12:22,780 --> 01:12:18,290
is a solid object exactly exactly and

1364
01:12:27,730 --> 01:12:22,790
this is the point where I went from

1365
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:27,740
feeling uneasy about the silence to calm

1366
01:12:35,860 --> 01:12:33,430
and I felt this calm wash over me and I

1367
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:35,870
maybe I remember I asked Toby I said

1368
01:12:43,900 --> 01:12:38,930
Toby are you afraid he's like my man I'm

1369
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:43,910
not afraid are you afraid looks good and

1370
01:12:49,210 --> 01:12:44,960
I'm like

1371
01:12:52,180 --> 01:12:49,220
Toby you know you're the astronomer what

1372
01:12:57,250 --> 01:12:52,190
is that thing and he never answered me

1373
01:12:58,990 --> 01:12:57,260
and it got bigger and bigger and Jimmy

1374
01:13:05,740 --> 01:12:59,000
it was enormous

1375
01:13:11,460 --> 01:13:05,750
I can't I did a drawing to scale tried

1376
01:13:15,340 --> 01:13:11,470
to do it to scale this thing it was

1377
01:13:18,820 --> 01:13:15,350
parked about 3,000 feet

1378
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:18,830
I'm guessing overhead and I would guess

1379
01:13:27,670 --> 01:13:23,120
that each leg of the triangle was a city

1380
01:13:32,230 --> 01:13:27,680
block in length and it was easily five

1381
01:13:35,410 --> 01:13:32,240
stories tall and on each point there was

1382
01:13:40,650 --> 01:13:35,420
a light panel that ran from the bottom

1383
01:13:43,390 --> 01:13:40,660
to the top and there were were lights

1384
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:43,400
that's where the and I remember these

1385
01:13:47,860 --> 01:13:45,530
lights would run up and down that light

1386
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:47,870
bar and I remember thinking that's what

1387
01:13:52,980 --> 01:13:49,850
must give the illusion of a star

1388
01:13:55,060 --> 01:13:52,990
twinkling when it's up high in the sky

1389
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:55,070
but we're sitting there on these air

1390
01:13:59,800 --> 01:13:56,930
mattresses it's 3,000 feet over our

1391
01:14:03,060 --> 01:13:59,810
heads and we are almost to the point of

1392
01:14:06,670 --> 01:14:03,070
disinterested we are absolutely near

1393
01:14:10,450 --> 01:14:06,680
apathetic and we're laying there and and

1394
01:14:13,870 --> 01:14:10,460
just watching this thing and Toby has

1395
01:14:15,130 --> 01:14:13,880
the flashlight in his hand and he said

1396
01:14:16,629 --> 01:14:15,140
something like I'm gonna signal this

1397
01:14:18,490 --> 01:14:16,639
thing

1398
01:14:20,979 --> 01:14:18,500
I was going to grab it from his hand but

1399
01:14:23,590 --> 01:14:20,989
I was her quick enough and he turned it

1400
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:23,600
on a couple times and shined it right in

1401
01:14:30,060 --> 01:14:26,090
the middle of this thing and as soon as

1402
01:14:32,500 --> 01:14:30,070
he did from the center of this triangle

1403
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:32,510
came a beam of light and it just

1404
01:14:36,879 --> 01:14:34,130
appeared like it just like someone

1405
01:14:38,919 --> 01:14:36,889
flipped a switch and it was a visible

1406
01:14:41,890 --> 01:14:38,929
beam of light when I say visible I mean

1407
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:41,900
like like a high-power searchlight

1408
01:14:47,050 --> 01:14:44,090
cutting through fog right you can see

1409
01:14:49,450 --> 01:14:47,060
being bright that's the way this was and

1410
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:49,460
it was about the diameter of a softball

1411
01:14:56,890 --> 01:14:53,090
and it it just flipped on and it landed

1412
01:15:01,419 --> 01:14:56,900
square in the middle of our now almost

1413
01:15:03,609 --> 01:15:01,429
dead campfire holy crap and you know we

1414
01:15:09,910 --> 01:15:03,619
should have been yeah we should have

1415
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:09,920
been hysterical and I think I think I

1416
01:15:16,390 --> 01:15:12,010
said something like that's pretty cool

1417
01:15:21,459 --> 01:15:16,400
now you you and Toby are in the the

1418
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:21,469
bleep in Air Force you guys know what we

1419
01:15:28,209 --> 01:15:25,850
have or you're supposed to what did you

1420
01:15:30,399 --> 01:15:28,219
guys discuss this at that point you know

1421
01:15:34,660 --> 01:15:30,409
the famous us or them you know

1422
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:34,670
conversation what is this no didn't do

1423
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:37,730
it and now I'm looking at one of your

1424
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:41,090
drawings and of this craft and we've got

1425
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:43,850
it posted and it's a great drawing great

1426
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:46,850
recall there is I have a couple of

1427
01:15:55,540 --> 01:15:50,090
questions and each one of the panels on

1428
01:15:59,979 --> 01:15:55,550
the sides it looks like the everything

1429
01:16:01,479 --> 01:15:59,989
is it in a triangle shape right it's not

1430
01:16:04,899 --> 01:16:01,489
a triangle shape what's the word I'm

1431
01:16:07,149 --> 01:16:04,909
trying to like it's a parallelogram but

1432
01:16:11,169 --> 01:16:07,159
it's not is that the way it was

1433
01:16:13,419 --> 01:16:11,179
represented you know the the grid the

1434
01:16:17,020 --> 01:16:13,429
squares it's smaller on one side and

1435
01:16:19,330 --> 01:16:17,030
bigger on them you know so that's the

1436
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:19,340
way it was shaped that's that's the way

1437
01:16:25,180 --> 01:16:21,290
it was shaped I tried to draw that to

1438
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:25,190
scale there the the the lights and the

1439
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:27,770
craft is smaller on either in because it

1440
01:16:32,359 --> 01:16:29,010
is farther away

1441
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:32,369
right but you understand what I'm saying

1442
01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:36,570
that was the shape of this this area on

1443
01:16:45,319 --> 01:16:42,960
the side this I'm I'm at a loss for

1444
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:45,329
words trying to describe this but it's

1445
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:47,250
not the same

1446
01:16:51,500 --> 01:16:49,920
you've got the sides or scar you know or

1447
01:16:53,779 --> 01:16:51,510
square you know it's rectangular the

1448
01:16:57,049 --> 01:16:53,789
sides of the crowd but the inside area

1449
01:16:58,640 --> 01:16:57,059
with the grid is smaller on one side and

1450
01:17:01,870 --> 01:16:58,650
bigger on the other so that it was

1451
01:17:06,109 --> 01:17:01,880
shaped like that yes very interesting

1452
01:17:09,410 --> 01:17:06,119
very very very interesting and what what

1453
01:17:14,209 --> 01:17:09,420
do you think those were I don't have a

1454
01:17:18,410 --> 01:17:14,219
clue yeah I don't we didn't really get

1455
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:18,420
the look this is before the thing came

1456
01:17:22,009 --> 01:17:20,250
down and we could really see it right

1457
01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,019
right because we're looking at it it's

1458
01:17:30,049 --> 01:17:24,719
above the sky it's up in the sky still

1459
01:17:33,740 --> 01:17:30,059
right and the the light that came down

1460
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:33,750
and hit the campfire higher right lasted

1461
01:17:38,930 --> 01:17:35,250
maybe a minute or two and then it it

1462
01:17:42,910 --> 01:17:38,940
slipped off and immediately in its place

1463
01:17:46,279 --> 01:17:42,920
came this laser beam light thing ultra

1464
01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:46,289
purplish bluish laser beams were kind of

1465
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:49,110
a new concept in 1977 I mean I'd seen

1466
01:17:54,830 --> 01:17:52,170
them on television but this thing came

1467
01:18:00,069 --> 01:17:54,840
from the center of the crap just like

1468
01:18:03,709 --> 01:18:00,079
the the white light came from and it

1469
01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:03,719
would flick on and land at a spot and

1470
01:18:10,220 --> 01:18:07,260
then flip off for a millisecond and then

1471
01:18:12,890 --> 01:18:10,230
flip back on at another place and in

1472
01:18:16,459 --> 01:18:12,900
that manner it darted all around a

1473
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:16,469
campsite and I know that it hit me you

1474
01:18:18,830 --> 01:18:18,210
know two or three times I know it hit

1475
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:18,840
Toby

1476
01:18:24,259 --> 01:18:22,530
it hit a car and in the tent and I guess

1477
01:18:27,009 --> 01:18:24,269
that was some kind of scanner yeah

1478
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:27,019
mapping yeah yeah some kind of scanner

1479
01:18:35,660 --> 01:18:31,250
and you also described before we move on

1480
01:18:40,370 --> 01:18:35,670
that it the craft was matte black like

1481
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:40,380
flat black underneath yes yes and it was

1482
01:18:45,149 --> 01:18:42,130
it was night but the

1483
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:45,159
eight panels on the side lift the thing

1484
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:49,510
up enough that we could see that the

1485
01:18:55,860 --> 01:18:52,090
body of it was matte black yeah any

1486
01:18:59,129 --> 01:18:55,870
windows yes yes the windows and some

1487
01:19:00,990 --> 01:18:59,139
were lit and at the very top I don't do

1488
01:19:05,399 --> 01:19:01,000
a good job of illustrating that at the

1489
01:19:07,140 --> 01:19:05,409
very top there were like almost like an

1490
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:07,150
observation deck or something

1491
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:08,800
yeah you've got little dudes there

1492
01:19:13,620 --> 01:19:11,770
looking out you could see them you know

1493
01:19:16,290 --> 01:19:13,630
we couldn't actually see we could see

1494
01:19:21,419 --> 01:19:16,300
shadows right but I couldn't actually

1495
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:21,429
make out forms now if this thing was the

1496
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,370
size that you think it was you know you

1497
01:19:28,890 --> 01:19:26,320
know city block on a site you know 3,000

1498
01:19:32,189 --> 01:19:28,900
feet or what of it it's ginormous five

1499
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:32,199
stories tall these light panels on each

1500
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:35,440
corner these are five story tall light

1501
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:39,489
panels correct correct it just must have

1502
01:19:47,340 --> 01:19:43,199
been phenomenal to see this and and huge

1503
01:19:50,220 --> 01:19:47,350
well you know I I want to get to words

1504
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:50,230
comes down yeah and and also you

1505
01:19:56,729 --> 01:19:52,810
describe the sound too really well in

1506
01:20:00,419 --> 01:19:56,739
the book what were you hearing well I

1507
01:20:04,260 --> 01:20:00,429
should state that after the blue light

1508
01:20:06,899 --> 01:20:04,270
went out Toby said show's over and we

1509
01:20:09,899 --> 01:20:06,909
went to bed we went inside the tent went

1510
01:20:11,580 --> 01:20:09,909
to sleep with this thing 3,000 feet

1511
01:20:15,090 --> 01:20:11,590
overhead we went inside with the sleep

1512
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:15,100
and I remember I laid down and I thought

1513
01:20:19,169 --> 01:20:17,170
my last thought conscious thought was

1514
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:19,179
that Toby was wrong - crickets never

1515
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:25,090
came back I hit my pillow and I was I

1516
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:29,409
was out and then sometime about 3:00

1517
01:20:38,540 --> 01:20:34,810
a.m. I'm again I'm woke up by incredible

1518
01:20:42,899 --> 01:20:38,550
flashes of brilliant light yellow and

1519
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:42,909
greenish white and it wakes me up and

1520
01:20:48,270 --> 01:20:46,090
I'm thinking these must be like overhead

1521
01:20:48,810 --> 01:20:48,280
lights from a park rangers truck or

1522
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:48,820
something

1523
01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:51,250
and this droning sound this droning

1524
01:20:55,510 --> 01:20:53,920
sound was it's like standing next to a

1525
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:55,520
diesel locomotive

1526
01:21:00,310 --> 01:20:57,920
or a big piece of equipment right that's

1527
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:00,320
so much loud as it is powerful you can

1528
01:21:07,780 --> 01:21:04,490
feel it in your chest and Toby's on his

1529
01:21:10,390 --> 01:21:07,790
knees and he's peering out the tent and

1530
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:10,400
I could see in these flashes of life

1531
01:21:18,190 --> 01:21:13,040
there's streams of tears down his face

1532
01:21:21,460 --> 01:21:18,200
and I'm in a I'm in a fog I'm having

1533
01:21:24,430 --> 01:21:21,470
trouble getting my wits about me and I

1534
01:21:29,500 --> 01:21:24,440
realize I'm in a lot of pain and I'm

1535
01:21:34,990 --> 01:21:29,510
like Toby what Shh and he shushed me and

1536
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:35,000
I could hear rustling outside and he

1537
01:21:40,150 --> 01:21:37,130
whispered something the effect of

1538
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:40,160
they're still out there and I'm like who

1539
01:21:47,260 --> 01:21:42,410
is it Toby Park Ranger who's out there

1540
01:21:49,810 --> 01:21:47,270
and I I got to my knees and I nudged him

1541
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:49,820
over and I pulled back a flap on my side

1542
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:52,130
of the tent and I looked out and the

1543
01:21:58,060 --> 01:21:54,800
first thing I saw was what looked like

1544
01:22:03,720 --> 01:21:58,070
about a dozen or maybe fifteen little

1545
01:22:06,490 --> 01:22:03,730
kids walking around this meadow and I

1546
01:22:09,070 --> 01:22:06,500
asked Toby I said Toby what the hell are

1547
01:22:12,670 --> 01:22:09,080
these little kids doing up and he said

1548
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:12,680
mandals ain't no little kids and then it

1549
01:22:16,780 --> 01:22:13,250
hit me

1550
01:22:19,690 --> 01:22:16,790
yeah then I was awake then all that fog

1551
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:19,700
was gone all the apathy and disinterest

1552
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:22,970
was gone and I was scared I was

1553
01:22:28,450 --> 01:22:23,930
terrified

1554
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:28,460
out of my wits it was unbelievable yeah

1555
01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:33,050
not cool not cool at all where is where

1556
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:34,450
is Toby today

1557
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:37,370
Toby is dead Toby's dead when did he

1558
01:22:49,330 --> 01:22:43,280
pass it's in 2014 I went and and tried

1559
01:22:51,670 --> 01:22:49,340
to find Toby and I found that he was

1560
01:22:59,530 --> 01:22:51,680
divorced left the Air Force due to

1561
01:23:07,240 --> 01:22:59,540
alcoholism and had died in 2000 no

1562
01:23:09,310 --> 01:23:07,250
support 1982 Dean age 82 and we're gonna

1563
01:23:14,890 --> 01:23:09,320
continue with this but staying

1564
01:23:19,930 --> 01:23:14,900
Toby for a second did you guys continue

1565
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:19,940
to work together at the at white men and

1566
01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:22,090
did you guys talk about this afterwards

1567
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:26,800
you know yeah we never worked together

1568
01:23:35,260 --> 01:23:30,290
and something changed between us right

1569
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:35,270
when when when this thing would

1570
01:23:40,770 --> 01:23:37,970
everything that happened was done and

1571
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:40,780
these little figures all disappeared and

1572
01:23:45,460 --> 01:23:43,250
droning stopped and the lights changed

1573
01:23:50,620 --> 01:23:45,470
all to white and we watched this thing

1574
01:23:52,180 --> 01:23:50,630
lift off like a hot-air balloon what we

1575
01:23:55,420 --> 01:23:52,190
could think of was to get out of there

1576
01:23:56,620 --> 01:23:55,430
and we I know it sounds funny but I

1577
01:23:58,960 --> 01:23:56,630
didn't really leave the tent

1578
01:24:00,940 --> 01:23:58,970
I felt secure in the tent I didn't want

1579
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:00,950
to be in the open just in a few yards to

1580
01:24:03,670 --> 01:24:02,930
the car I can't blame you I would have

1581
01:24:06,550 --> 01:24:03,680
done the same thing

1582
01:24:08,260 --> 01:24:06,560
what were the kids the greys that you

1583
01:24:10,540 --> 01:24:08,270
know the ut's what were they doing out

1584
01:24:12,610 --> 01:24:10,550
there were they collecting stuff what

1585
01:24:16,690 --> 01:24:12,620
were they doing they were milling around

1586
01:24:18,700 --> 01:24:16,700
in pairs of twos and threes and yeah

1587
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:18,710
occasionally one would bend down and

1588
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:22,970
like pick up something and then as I see

1589
01:24:27,730 --> 01:24:24,770
in the book there was that 30-foot

1590
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:27,740
column of white light from the middle of

1591
01:24:31,510 --> 01:24:29,810
the craft and like now it's just 30 feet

1592
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:31,520
over the floor of the metal now I know

1593
01:24:37,330 --> 01:24:33,770
why Toby was so honest about we'd Park

1594
01:24:39,190 --> 01:24:37,340
back by the tree line right and these

1595
01:24:47,770 --> 01:24:39,200
little guys walked into that light and

1596
01:24:50,980 --> 01:24:47,780
then just dissolved the the idea to that

1597
01:24:53,710 --> 01:24:50,990
Toby had to move the campsite over to

1598
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:53,720
the edge the idea to go to Devil's Den

1599
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:57,290
the idea not to be at a campground all

1600
01:25:06,210 --> 01:25:01,520
of these were Toby's where did where did

1601
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:06,220
they come from you know I I think I

1602
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:10,130
think that Toby and I were both

1603
01:25:20,050 --> 01:25:15,170
programmed somehow you know I I had

1604
01:25:21,850 --> 01:25:20,060
experiences as a child and you know that

1605
01:25:24,820 --> 01:25:21,860
not like this I mean

1606
01:25:26,950 --> 01:25:24,830
I saw a UFO when I was a kid I saw a

1607
01:25:35,140 --> 01:25:26,960
flying saucer not a great big deal

1608
01:25:37,060 --> 01:25:35,150
nothing intimate like this but and I

1609
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:37,070
lost my thought where I was we were

1610
01:25:42,970 --> 01:25:40,730
talking about the ideas coming to Toby

1611
01:25:45,700 --> 01:25:42,980
for all of these different situations I

1612
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:45,710
mean everything was it seems deliberate

1613
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:48,530
you know absolutely delivered it was

1614
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:50,239
calculated right huh

1615
01:25:56,410 --> 01:25:54,290
and I I said that in the book that on

1616
01:25:58,479 --> 01:25:56,420
the way back I thought you know damn it

1617
01:26:00,310 --> 01:25:58,489
we were set up you know we were there

1618
01:26:06,340 --> 01:26:00,320
for an appointment and we were right on

1619
01:26:12,010 --> 01:26:06,350
time and I I I knew that they took us we

1620
01:26:16,330 --> 01:26:12,020
we were so we were pretty bad but I'm on

1621
01:26:18,700 --> 01:26:16,340
the car long drive back we're just we're

1622
01:26:22,330 --> 01:26:18,710
hurting we're thirsty just absolutely

1623
01:26:25,090 --> 01:26:22,340
incredibly thirsty and I look over at

1624
01:26:27,070 --> 01:26:25,100
Toby and he's kind of crewed up it's a

1625
01:26:29,379 --> 01:26:27,080
big bench seat in my old and power line

1626
01:26:33,490 --> 01:26:29,389
he's kind of curled up into a fetal

1627
01:26:37,660 --> 01:26:33,500
position and I thought I wonder if he's

1628
01:26:41,890 --> 01:26:37,670
really sleeping and I suddenly had the

1629
01:26:43,689 --> 01:26:41,900
strangest dislike for the guy and I

1630
01:26:47,470 --> 01:26:43,699
shook my head and I'm like whoa where

1631
01:26:50,290 --> 01:26:47,480
did that where does this come from and I

1632
01:26:52,660 --> 01:26:50,300
did I had an absolute dislike for the

1633
01:26:54,910 --> 01:26:52,670
guy and I didn't want anything to do

1634
01:26:59,439 --> 01:26:54,920
with him I didn't blame him

1635
01:27:02,919 --> 01:26:59,449
for for what had happened but I just

1636
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:02,929
felt this dislike for him the kind of

1637
01:27:07,109 --> 01:27:04,730
dislike like if you know sometimes you

1638
01:27:09,729 --> 01:27:07,119
meet someone and you immediately just

1639
01:27:13,300 --> 01:27:09,739
there's a bad vibe there and you don't

1640
01:27:16,780 --> 01:27:13,310
don't care for that person that's what

1641
01:27:19,300 --> 01:27:16,790
this was like was it the same did you

1642
01:27:23,020 --> 01:27:19,310
pick up that vibe from him that he was

1643
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:23,030
also feeling the same about you well

1644
01:27:27,580 --> 01:27:25,250
when we got back to base we were ordered

1645
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:27,590
to have no contact now I'm we're gonna

1646
01:27:32,830 --> 01:27:30,050
we're gonna talk about all of this in

1647
01:27:35,100 --> 01:27:32,840
just a second and also to have OSI step

1648
01:27:36,900 --> 01:27:35,110
in is a really big deal

1649
01:27:38,190 --> 01:27:36,910
and so let's do that let's go ahead and

1650
01:27:39,510 --> 01:27:38,200
take our break right now let's get this

1651
01:27:44,460 --> 01:27:39,520
out of the way because it's a perfect

1652
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:44,470
spot perfect spot to segue about what

1653
01:27:48,510 --> 01:27:46,090
happens next when they arrive at the

1654
01:27:50,250 --> 01:27:48,520
base I guess tonight Terry Lovelace

1655
01:27:52,050 --> 01:27:50,260
we're talking about this book incident

1656
01:27:59,100 --> 01:27:52,060
at Devil's Den I'm your host Jim each

1657
01:27:59,110 --> 01:28:08,929
[Music]

1658
01:28:16,169 --> 01:28:12,139
way out here we listen to Jimmy Church

1659
01:28:18,449 --> 01:28:16,179
you're listening to fade to black always

1660
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on the edge of the hottest alternative

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talk chilly church with fade to black

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Church a fade to black and last month I

1666
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decided to make sure my family does not

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1700
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you listen to us and we listen to you

1701
01:30:23,190 --> 01:30:21,400
and so does the CIA kgr a radio.com you

1702
01:30:27,170 --> 01:30:23,200
are listening to fade to black with

1703
01:30:30,540 --> 01:30:27,180
Jimmy Church on the game changer Network

1704
01:30:33,390 --> 01:30:30,550
hi I'm Lisa Vance you're listening to

1705
01:30:36,210 --> 01:30:33,400
Jamie Church this is a revolution the

1706
01:30:43,690 --> 01:30:36,220
revolution will not be televised the

1707
01:31:21,660 --> 01:31:18,810
[Music]

1708
01:31:24,010 --> 01:31:21,670
[Applause]

1709
01:31:24,959 --> 01:31:24,020
welcome back fade to black I'm the host

1710
01:31:28,090 --> 01:31:24,969
Jimmy Church

1711
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:28,100
tonight our guest is Terry Lovelace and

1712
01:31:34,870 --> 01:31:31,489
we're discussing discussing his book and

1713
01:31:36,970 --> 01:31:34,880
encounter incident at Devil's Den and

1714
01:31:38,890 --> 01:31:36,980
the links for the book are over at Jimmy

1715
01:31:43,629 --> 01:31:38,900
Turks radio.com and I do want to say to

1716
01:31:47,709 --> 01:31:43,639
everybody that the details that Terry

1717
01:31:50,740 --> 01:31:47,719
has on the are just incredible the book

1718
01:31:53,770 --> 01:31:50,750
is so well written tonight we only have

1719
01:31:57,220 --> 01:31:53,780
two hours two and half hours to get all

1720
01:31:58,899 --> 01:31:57,230
of this in and you need to go back and

1721
01:32:01,000 --> 01:31:58,909
when you read the book and the details

1722
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:01,010
that are there Terry I'm very thankful

1723
01:32:06,790 --> 01:32:04,880
that you did take notes and your memory

1724
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:06,800
of everything is just incredible in the

1725
01:32:12,010 --> 01:32:08,449
detail in the book it's just like you're

1726
01:32:14,050 --> 01:32:12,020
right there and and we're we're leaving

1727
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:14,060
so much out but that's the reason to go

1728
01:32:18,820 --> 01:32:15,770
and get the book - it's a it's a really

1729
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:18,830
great read but let's pick up where we

1730
01:32:25,180 --> 01:32:23,330
left off so you and Toby oh okay you and

1731
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:25,190
Toby are on your way back to Whiteman

1732
01:32:30,070 --> 01:32:27,770
but you said something earlier I want to

1733
01:32:31,990 --> 01:32:30,080
just address really quick you said when

1734
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:32,000
you came out and Toby was on his knees

1735
01:32:39,070 --> 01:32:34,850
he had the tears in his face that you

1736
01:32:41,260 --> 01:32:39,080
were in pain what did you know at the

1737
01:32:43,689 --> 01:32:41,270
time what the pain was from and and what

1738
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:43,699
where was it was it just your entire

1739
01:32:52,359 --> 01:32:44,210
body

1740
01:32:53,979 --> 01:32:52,369
find out later when I got home my wife

1741
01:32:56,830 --> 01:32:53,989
took my temperature I had a heart for

1742
01:32:59,770 --> 01:32:56,840
temperature so some of those body aches

1743
01:33:01,990 --> 01:32:59,780
I could attribute to fever but some of

1744
01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:02,000
them I felt like I'd been beaten yeah

1745
01:33:08,350 --> 01:33:05,510
you were traumatized your toes yeah yeah

1746
01:33:11,140 --> 01:33:08,360
totally and and plus you're an EMT you

1747
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:11,150
know you're medic so you know that

1748
01:33:15,939 --> 01:33:13,130
there's something going on if you've got

1749
01:33:18,910 --> 01:33:15,949
some kind of physical trauma it's it's

1750
01:33:22,300 --> 01:33:18,920
your job right did you did you diagnose

1751
01:33:25,330 --> 01:33:22,310
yourself you know kinda yeah yeah yeah

1752
01:33:28,419 --> 01:33:25,340
we we pulled into his first service

1753
01:33:30,189 --> 01:33:28,429
station that we could find open 1977

1754
01:33:34,810 --> 01:33:30,199
this was rural there was nothing down

1755
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:34,820
there right and I ran to the bathroom

1756
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:38,090
yeah it's just a grungy faucet I

1757
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:40,010
remember I put my hands in the defroster

1758
01:33:43,900 --> 01:33:42,290
then I drank oh my friend all I could

1759
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:43,910
hold I couldn't get enough water I was

1760
01:33:48,700 --> 01:33:46,970
so dehydrated and I splashed some water

1761
01:33:50,110 --> 01:33:48,710
in my face like stood up and looked at

1762
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:50,120
myself in the mirror and couldn't

1763
01:33:55,750 --> 01:33:52,850
believe it I was beet red

1764
01:34:00,310 --> 01:33:55,760
III didn't blister but it was like a

1765
01:34:03,130 --> 01:34:00,320
terrible sunburn and then I had my shirt

1766
01:34:07,450 --> 01:34:03,140
up and I realized I'm sunburned under my

1767
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:07,460
arms how does that happen and I remember

1768
01:34:11,590 --> 01:34:08,930
I thought you know I would end up in a

1769
01:34:14,140 --> 01:34:11,600
nude and it's like a chicken on a

1770
01:34:17,380 --> 01:34:14,150
rotisserie in the Sun right right right

1771
01:34:18,250 --> 01:34:17,390
my shirt off being a whole thing we use

1772
01:34:21,340 --> 01:34:18,260
sunscreen

1773
01:34:24,550 --> 01:34:21,350
now those there's no reason for that and

1774
01:34:30,250 --> 01:34:24,560
photophobia my eyes were so sensitive to

1775
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:30,260
light and that and the thirst was just

1776
01:34:37,660 --> 01:34:34,400
but I think Toby was worse Toby Toby was

1777
01:34:40,660 --> 01:34:37,670
was worse off I mean this whole face was

1778
01:34:43,870 --> 01:34:40,670
swollen and distorted where my eyes were

1779
01:34:47,290 --> 01:34:43,880
just puffy and swollen at this point

1780
01:34:51,730 --> 01:34:47,300
were you cognizant did you remember

1781
01:34:54,370 --> 01:34:51,740
everything that had just happened did

1782
01:34:56,710 --> 01:34:54,380
you remember it yeah did you remember

1783
01:34:58,780 --> 01:34:56,720
the craft did you remember the little

1784
01:35:01,540 --> 01:34:58,790
guys out in the field

1785
01:35:05,310 --> 01:35:01,550
did the beams of light did you remember

1786
01:35:09,910 --> 01:35:05,320
all of that no not on a linear not on a

1787
01:35:12,970 --> 01:35:09,920
chronological order it's hard to explain

1788
01:35:17,610 --> 01:35:12,980
but what it was was it was flashes

1789
01:35:20,890 --> 01:35:17,620
mental flashes and I would get a flash

1790
01:35:27,820 --> 01:35:20,900
memory and I would shake my head and say

1791
01:35:29,980 --> 01:35:27,830
no no no no I don't think about I wanted

1792
01:35:34,660 --> 01:35:29,990
to ask you before we get back to the car

1793
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:34,670
and and head to the base were the were

1794
01:35:40,780 --> 01:35:36,650
the creatures was it was et were they

1795
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:40,790
clothed do you remember we could see

1796
01:35:48,100 --> 01:35:43,760
pretty well because the things on the

1797
01:35:53,950 --> 01:35:51,100
light panels had the whole place lit up

1798
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:53,960
like a ballpark and we could see these

1799
01:35:59,729 --> 01:35:56,330
little guys they were like a gray

1800
01:36:02,439 --> 01:35:59,739
pantsuit or something they were clothed

1801
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:02,449
we also noticed I first mistook them for

1802
01:36:07,990 --> 01:36:05,750
children and then it did then I realized

1803
01:36:10,209 --> 01:36:08,000
that they were their bodies were

1804
01:36:12,729 --> 01:36:10,219
disproportionately through a human being

1805
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:12,739
they were their legs for shorter their

1806
01:36:17,020 --> 01:36:14,570
arms were longer their torso was

1807
01:36:23,379 --> 01:36:17,030
extended and their the heads were bigger

1808
01:36:25,870 --> 01:36:23,389
and they they walked with an odd gait so

1809
01:36:28,959 --> 01:36:25,880
I knew that these were damaged human

1810
01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:28,969
beings right right oh what a nightmare

1811
01:36:34,060 --> 01:36:31,760
just absolutely crazy cool into

1812
01:36:36,220 --> 01:36:34,070
innocence too as well

1813
01:36:39,430 --> 01:36:36,230
but let's get back to the car okay so

1814
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:39,440
now you guys you get back in the car you

1815
01:36:43,300 --> 01:36:42,770
try to quench your thirst Toby's in bad

1816
01:36:46,330 --> 01:36:43,310
shape

1817
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:46,340
you're driving you head to the base what

1818
01:36:54,910 --> 01:36:52,730
happens next we get we get home I don't

1819
01:36:58,840 --> 01:36:54,920
think for the entire drive back there

1820
01:37:02,080 --> 01:36:58,850
were two words said between us there's

1821
01:37:04,740 --> 01:37:02,090
two people that just had this incredible

1822
01:37:08,050 --> 01:37:04,750
experience and you think we'd be

1823
01:37:11,580 --> 01:37:08,060
comparing notes and say oh I would no no

1824
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:11,590
no I wouldn't like that at all it was I

1825
01:37:19,689 --> 01:37:16,850
felt a distaste for the guy that I

1826
01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:19,699
couldn't reconcile in my mind and we

1827
01:37:24,790 --> 01:37:21,679
didn't talk there was no conversation on

1828
01:37:27,060 --> 01:37:24,800
the way back it was just awkward and I

1829
01:37:30,100 --> 01:37:27,070
remember i roused and he was sleeping I

1830
01:37:33,399 --> 01:37:30,110
think he was asleep when we were bought

1831
01:37:37,540 --> 01:37:33,409
and I told him told ETA about 15 minutes

1832
01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:37,550
man and he got up and he didn't say a

1833
01:37:42,070 --> 01:37:39,920
word and I dropped him off we lived in

1834
01:37:44,709 --> 01:37:42,080
base housing an NCO housing but I

1835
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:44,719
dropped him off he got out of the car I

1836
01:37:50,290 --> 01:37:47,810
think my parting words for sia I don't

1837
01:37:52,540 --> 01:37:50,300
think he said anything and he just well

1838
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:52,550
he had was his flashlight we left we

1839
01:37:56,709 --> 01:37:54,290
left everything there I had my wallet

1840
01:37:59,500 --> 01:37:56,719
and my keys we left her cooler we left

1841
01:38:01,240 --> 01:37:59,510
the tent without blankets we like Toby's

1842
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:01,250
back pack his case

1843
01:38:08,500 --> 01:38:05,570
everything we left at the site all we

1844
01:38:11,500 --> 01:38:08,510
wanted was to get distance metal did you

1845
01:38:13,390 --> 01:38:11,510
take any pictures did a Toby worth it

1846
01:38:18,940 --> 01:38:13,400
was there anything left on the cameras

1847
01:38:22,060 --> 01:38:18,950
oh my god cameras you know and this this

1848
01:38:24,820 --> 01:38:22,070
is worth telling because we're just not

1849
01:38:28,090 --> 01:38:24,830
this inept you know what we were sort of

1850
01:38:30,070 --> 01:38:28,100
guys of course not of course not and you

1851
01:38:32,710 --> 01:38:30,080
know part of our routine was we stalked

1852
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:32,720
an ambulance every day that's right you

1853
01:38:36,550 --> 01:38:34,130
guys had routines

1854
01:38:38,860 --> 01:38:36,560
yes thanking for this trip should have

1855
01:38:42,070 --> 01:38:38,870
been a no-brainer right and we made

1856
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:42,080
exhaustive lists and we went through

1857
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:45,410
this exaggerated logistics and I had my

1858
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:48,290
camera I had different kinds of

1859
01:38:52,570 --> 01:38:50,690
black-and-white films I was reading

1860
01:38:55,810 --> 01:38:52,580
Ansel Adams and looking his photographs

1861
01:38:57,520 --> 01:38:55,820
and I had I had the film all put

1862
01:38:59,590 --> 01:38:57,530
together I had new telephoto lens I

1863
01:39:02,040 --> 01:38:59,600
wanted to try I had a cam planter and I

1864
01:39:06,570 --> 01:39:02,050
borrow from someone and a hatchet and

1865
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:06,580
were three hours south and I realized

1866
01:39:14,230 --> 01:39:09,650
Toby I think I left that stuff in that

1867
01:39:17,230 --> 01:39:14,240
kitchen and then I'm like punching the

1868
01:39:18,700 --> 01:39:17,240
steering room like no this cannot be and

1869
01:39:20,850 --> 01:39:18,710
Toby's like no I mean I pull this thing

1870
01:39:25,090 --> 01:39:20,860
over you you couldn't have done that and

1871
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:25,100
I pulled the car over and no it was

1872
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:27,530
saying we didn't find it it wasn't there

1873
01:39:33,430 --> 01:39:28,970
it was on my kitchen counter where I

1874
01:39:37,630 --> 01:39:33,440
left it I thought to use Toby's camera

1875
01:39:40,890 --> 01:39:37,640
never crossed our minds and I'm an

1876
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:40,900
amateur photographer at the time I I

1877
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:45,890
can't understand that you know I

1878
01:39:50,710 --> 01:39:47,360
wouldn't have been real thrilled about

1879
01:39:52,060 --> 01:39:50,720
having a flash go off but the thought of

1880
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:52,070
using the camera never crossed my mind

1881
01:39:58,240 --> 01:39:55,370
yeah that's crazy that's crazy and you

1882
01:40:00,880 --> 01:39:58,250
guys just you know the attention to

1883
01:40:03,820 --> 01:40:00,890
detail and everything else but you guys

1884
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:03,830
just left hightailed it out of there and

1885
01:40:10,450 --> 01:40:07,450
everything was just luck and somebody

1886
01:40:12,100 --> 01:40:10,460
came back and got that stuff and we'll

1887
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:12,110
talk about that too as well so let's

1888
01:40:19,750 --> 01:40:14,570
okay so you get back you drop Toby

1889
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:19,760
and and you head home uh what happens

1890
01:40:27,670 --> 01:40:23,210
next what did your wife say I I walk in

1891
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:27,680
the door and my wife said oh hang on you

1892
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:30,800
back early and she looked at me and all

1893
01:40:38,770 --> 01:40:34,330
she could see was Terry what the hell

1894
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:38,780
and I sat down at the kitchen and I said

1895
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:41,090
I need something to drink and she

1896
01:40:45,580 --> 01:40:43,370
remembers she had me a tumbler of

1897
01:40:47,260 --> 01:40:45,590
lemonade and I just downed it she kept

1898
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:47,270
filling it up and she said what happened

1899
01:40:55,530 --> 01:40:50,480
to you and I told her the truth

1900
01:41:00,660 --> 01:40:55,540
I don't know and my memories foggy again

1901
01:41:03,580 --> 01:41:00,670
at this point and I'm in so much pain

1902
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:03,590
and she puts me in a tub of water gets

1903
01:41:10,150 --> 01:41:06,320
my fever down to 102 takes me to the

1904
01:41:12,190 --> 01:41:10,160
hospital and when when we're at the

1905
01:41:13,900 --> 01:41:12,200
hospital I hear I hurt Toby's wife out

1906
01:41:15,540 --> 01:41:13,910
in the hallway so I knew Toby had to be

1907
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:15,550
there too

1908
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:18,170
but I didn't know it at the time we were

1909
01:41:26,850 --> 01:41:22,610
listed as acutely ill and I had the most

1910
01:41:31,380 --> 01:41:26,860
intense physical examination of my life

1911
01:41:34,870 --> 01:41:31,390
and they admitted me to the hospital and

1912
01:41:38,770 --> 01:41:34,880
I want to jump to the point where I I

1913
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:38,780
had I was there for two days or two

1914
01:41:44,980 --> 01:41:43,010
nights rather on the third day well they

1915
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:44,990
kept the lights turned off that's where

1916
01:41:48,820 --> 01:41:46,850
I'm going with this the overhead lights

1917
01:41:51,190 --> 01:41:48,830
cuz and it overhead light would just

1918
01:41:56,940 --> 01:41:51,200
kill my eyes that was still that full of

1919
01:41:59,290 --> 01:41:56,950
phobic right my nurse walks in with a

1920
01:42:01,090 --> 01:41:59,300
hypodermic needle in her hand and I knew

1921
01:42:03,570 --> 01:42:01,100
what it was it was my pain mad because I

1922
01:42:08,340 --> 01:42:03,580
was due for it and I could use it and

1923
01:42:13,930 --> 01:42:08,350
behind her came two guys in suits and

1924
01:42:15,490 --> 01:42:13,940
the one short guy old he was an older

1925
01:42:18,310 --> 01:42:15,500
guy there was an older guy and a younger

1926
01:42:21,340 --> 01:42:18,320
guy the solder guy I referred to as

1927
01:42:25,020 --> 01:42:21,350
agent Gregory in the book was jest Oh

1928
01:42:27,510 --> 01:42:25,030
just I mean he had this flattop haircut

1929
01:42:29,790 --> 01:42:27,520
you can recall

1930
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:29,800
what those even look like absolutely I

1931
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:32,770
never trusted anybody with a flattop oh

1932
01:42:38,700 --> 01:42:34,570
you just don't do it

1933
01:42:41,150 --> 01:42:38,710
okay so just reeks of intimidation

1934
01:42:43,790 --> 01:42:41,160
that's right and you know these guys

1935
01:42:47,010 --> 01:42:43,800
suit Coto open so you can see the

1936
01:42:50,550 --> 01:42:47,020
shoulder holster and the nurse came

1937
01:42:52,950 --> 01:42:50,560
around to give me an injection and this

1938
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:52,960
the older agent who was in charge the

1939
01:42:57,450 --> 01:42:54,370
younger guy was a captain

1940
01:43:00,240 --> 01:42:57,460
we didn't say much he said that's gonna

1941
01:43:02,970 --> 01:43:00,250
sedate him it's gonna have to wait we

1942
01:43:05,340 --> 01:43:02,980
have to ask him some questions so she

1943
01:43:09,570 --> 01:43:05,350
left in a huff and I didn't get my pain

1944
01:43:12,630 --> 01:43:09,580
meds and he shut the door and flipped on

1945
01:43:15,030 --> 01:43:12,640
the overheads and I'm like sir could you

1946
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:15,040
turn those out please I hiked mine and

1947
01:43:20,700 --> 01:43:16,690
it did it hit me like sand in my eyes

1948
01:43:23,550 --> 01:43:20,710
and he said gotta see what we're doing

1949
01:43:28,950 --> 01:43:23,560
here son can't work in the dark now can

1950
01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:28,960
we and they pulled tears around next to

1951
01:43:32,190 --> 01:43:30,490
be at the head of my bed where I was the

1952
01:43:34,650 --> 01:43:32,200
captain went down to the bed it was a

1953
01:43:37,230 --> 01:43:34,660
crank dad not electric and cranked up

1954
01:43:39,860 --> 01:43:37,240
the bed so I was sitting upright and the

1955
01:43:45,660 --> 01:43:39,870
major moved everything off my tray table

1956
01:43:50,010 --> 01:43:45,670
and slid it under my chest and started

1957
01:43:52,170 --> 01:43:50,020
asking me questions and they they

1958
01:43:56,430 --> 01:43:52,180
explained first of all he read me off

1959
01:43:57,900 --> 01:43:56,440
with my rights and under the UCMJ and I

1960
01:43:58,940 --> 01:43:57,910
remember saying you know sir am I in

1961
01:44:02,130 --> 01:43:58,950
trouble

1962
01:44:04,740 --> 01:44:02,140
and he kind of chuckled I looked at the

1963
01:44:07,620 --> 01:44:04,750
captain and said son would I be here if

1964
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:07,630
you weren't in trouble that's right and

1965
01:44:11,430 --> 01:44:09,520
I thought oh my god what do we do I

1966
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:11,440
thought maybe we burned a forest down or

1967
01:44:17,070 --> 01:44:15,130
something right and he said well you

1968
01:44:20,340 --> 01:44:17,080
know Park Rangers found your little

1969
01:44:21,930 --> 01:44:20,350
campsite and he said now you you left in

1970
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:21,940
the middle of the night and you drove

1971
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:24,730
halfway across the state no why would

1972
01:44:29,250 --> 01:44:27,010
you do that sir why why would you do

1973
01:44:31,440 --> 01:44:29,260
that why why would you why wouldn't you

1974
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:31,450
come back did you did you guys have a

1975
01:44:35,430 --> 01:44:32,890
little marijuana plot out there

1976
01:44:39,390 --> 01:44:35,440
somewhere and oh my god that made me so

1977
01:44:41,340 --> 01:44:39,400
scared because I thought God if by

1978
01:44:44,100 --> 01:44:41,350
happenstance that there were marijuana

1979
01:44:47,910 --> 01:44:44,110
they could try to you know me that's

1980
01:44:50,250 --> 01:44:47,920
right everything he said was to

1981
01:44:52,710 --> 01:44:50,260
intimidate me and he was very very good

1982
01:44:54,330 --> 01:44:52,720
at it and years later in retrospect and

1983
01:44:56,730 --> 01:44:54,340
after working with law enforcement I

1984
01:45:00,420 --> 01:44:56,740
could see that a lot of it was theater

1985
01:45:01,110 --> 01:45:00,430
but boy at the time it scared me to

1986
01:45:02,970 --> 01:45:01,120
death

1987
01:45:05,090 --> 01:45:02,980
especially when you know you haven't

1988
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:05,100
done anything wrong

1989
01:45:14,190 --> 01:45:11,890
yes well we we he made a big deal about

1990
01:45:16,650 --> 01:45:14,200
the trespass he says you know Park

1991
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:16,660
Rangers found your your little campsite

1992
01:45:21,690 --> 01:45:18,250
and he says did you know that was

1993
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:21,700
federal land and I thought who cares

1994
01:45:27,420 --> 01:45:24,970
what's the big deal I said no sir he

1995
01:45:31,020 --> 01:45:27,430
says yeah you know you guys you guys are

1996
01:45:32,610 --> 01:45:31,030
trespassing on a federal land and he

1997
01:45:37,050 --> 01:45:32,620
tried to make a big deal out of that and

1998
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:37,060
I didn't understand it and then either

1999
01:45:42,450 --> 01:45:40,210
he read me my rights and he laid out

2000
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:42,460
some forms in front of me there were six

2001
01:45:50,250 --> 01:45:46,810
forms and I said sir what are these and

2002
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:50,260
he says son these are waiver consent

2003
01:45:54,480 --> 01:45:52,210
forms and they're going to give us

2004
01:45:56,940 --> 01:45:54,490
permission to look around your house

2005
01:45:59,270 --> 01:45:56,950
look around your car to see if there's

2006
01:46:01,440 --> 01:45:59,280
anything that that you shouldn't have

2007
01:46:03,270 --> 01:46:01,450
understand like anything that you want

2008
01:46:06,390 --> 01:46:03,280
to hide now you're not gonna hide

2009
01:46:07,980 --> 01:46:06,400
anything from us are you is there you do

2010
01:46:10,500 --> 01:46:07,990
want to set your cooperate and sign

2011
01:46:13,710 --> 01:46:10,510
these and I saw sir do I have to sign

2012
01:46:16,230 --> 01:46:13,720
these and that's what he said something

2013
01:46:18,630 --> 01:46:16,240
that's right like no no no I can I can

2014
01:46:21,570 --> 01:46:18,640
just take these away we'll just see you

2015
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:21,580
at the court-martial and I'm like no sir

2016
01:46:26,430 --> 01:46:22,930
I want to do whatever I need to do to

2017
01:46:28,380 --> 01:46:26,440
cooperate and you know I'm 22 I'm dumb I

2018
01:46:32,550 --> 01:46:28,390
don't have the benefit of a law degree

2019
01:46:34,770 --> 01:46:32,560
and I signed EC six forms right where he

2020
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:34,780
points his finger sign here sign here

2021
01:46:39,930 --> 01:46:37,570
sign here I signed all six forms an

2022
01:46:42,570 --> 01:46:39,940
initial two box and he scooped him up

2023
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:42,580
put him in a manila folder you know it

2024
01:46:48,060 --> 01:46:45,570
looked satisfied stuck him in his case

2025
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:48,070
and I found out that they went they

2026
01:46:54,510 --> 01:46:49,930
searched my car

2027
01:46:56,160 --> 01:46:54,520
they got Toby's little hand-drawn map I

2028
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:56,170
the captain left in the middle of the

2029
01:47:00,840 --> 01:46:59,440
thing and brought it back the hand-drawn

2030
01:47:04,530 --> 01:47:00,850
map and a map that he took from the

2031
01:47:06,810 --> 01:47:04,540
kiosk and he laid them down on in front

2032
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:06,820
of me on the tray table when it says now

2033
01:47:12,180 --> 01:47:09,250
sunny that explained these to me show me

2034
01:47:14,430 --> 01:47:12,190
where you were and he made me you know

2035
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:14,440
look like he said look like you were

2036
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:17,770
above looking down and he really tried

2037
01:47:21,780 --> 01:47:19,330
to get me to narrow down and I did my

2038
01:47:22,620 --> 01:47:21,790
very best you know went which direction

2039
01:47:24,630 --> 01:47:22,630
was north

2040
01:47:27,570 --> 01:47:24,640
do you want me to draw where the car was

2041
01:47:32,190 --> 01:47:27,580
was he trying to it was he was he trying

2042
01:47:35,370 --> 01:47:32,200
to trip you up his questions were always

2043
01:47:37,410 --> 01:47:35,380
trying to trip me up yeah what he would

2044
01:47:41,130 --> 01:47:37,420
do is he would mix oh yes and no

2045
01:47:43,500 --> 01:47:41,140
question right so and he did that

2046
01:47:46,590 --> 01:47:43,510
constantly so I would have to say well

2047
01:47:48,570 --> 01:47:46,600
sir yes and and no and then and then try

2048
01:47:51,150 --> 01:47:48,580
to explain myself and then he said you

2049
01:47:53,990 --> 01:47:51,160
know no did you spend the night in the

2050
01:47:59,340 --> 01:47:54,000
park last night and I thought he meant

2051
01:48:01,230 --> 01:47:59,350
the campgrounds and I said no sir and as

2052
01:48:04,970 --> 01:48:01,240
soon as I said that he would ballistic

2053
01:48:09,750 --> 01:48:04,980
and he says you know where did you stay

2054
01:48:12,270 --> 01:48:09,760
expletive expletive the Hilton and I'm

2055
01:48:16,110 --> 01:48:12,280
just looking at him confused and he says

2056
01:48:18,030 --> 01:48:16,120
you didn't stay in a campground they

2057
01:48:19,530 --> 01:48:18,040
found your stuff Park Rangers found your

2058
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:19,540
stuff out there out of the wilderness

2059
01:48:24,030 --> 01:48:21,970
I said sir I'm sorry I misunderstood

2060
01:48:25,860 --> 01:48:24,040
your question but that was that was the

2061
01:48:28,440 --> 01:48:25,870
whole team with the thing was to keep me

2062
01:48:30,210 --> 01:48:28,450
you know off-balance and intimidated and

2063
01:48:33,180 --> 01:48:30,220
and I was intimidated

2064
01:48:36,810 --> 01:48:33,190
then they searched my home and they

2065
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:36,820
searched my car and they asked me

2066
01:48:42,180 --> 01:48:39,850
questions about they night he knew

2067
01:48:44,310 --> 01:48:42,190
because he told me says I know you that

2068
01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:44,320
you threw the squadron's photographer he

2069
01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:47,800
says you got a reputation for that and

2070
01:48:51,090 --> 01:48:49,330
he says you know I know you got you got

2071
01:48:52,590 --> 01:48:51,100
this telephoto and asked me what do you

2072
01:48:53,930 --> 01:48:52,600
like to photograph I said like you got a

2073
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:53,940
telephoto lens I like to photograph

2074
01:48:58,320 --> 01:48:56,560
Eagles and the moon I was kind of

2075
01:49:01,290 --> 01:48:58,330
captivated with the moon at the time for

2076
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:01,300
some reason he says what I want to know

2077
01:49:05,070 --> 01:49:03,250
what it is your take with this kind of

2078
01:49:08,540 --> 01:49:05,080
pictures are taken with this telescopic

2079
01:49:14,610 --> 01:49:11,970
boy he just he just drilled me drove me

2080
01:49:16,950 --> 01:49:14,620
drilled me and got to the point where

2081
01:49:18,990 --> 01:49:16,960
the nurse came back and said you know

2082
01:49:20,910 --> 01:49:19,000
dr. Sanders wants him to have his

2083
01:49:23,820 --> 01:49:20,920
medicine now I can bring doctor down

2084
01:49:25,950 --> 01:49:23,830
here if you'd like and the both the guy

2085
01:49:27,150 --> 01:49:25,960
stood up and the old guy said no no I

2086
01:49:28,440 --> 01:49:27,160
think we're about done here I think

2087
01:49:33,090 --> 01:49:28,450
we're about done with Sargent my place

2088
01:49:34,620 --> 01:49:33,100
and the nurse left the captain left and

2089
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:34,630
shut the door behind him so it was just

2090
01:49:41,190 --> 01:49:38,530
me and the the older major Gregory agent

2091
01:49:44,100 --> 01:49:41,200
Gregory in the room and he said you're

2092
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:44,110
to have no contact with senior Airman

2093
01:49:48,420 --> 01:49:46,330
Tobias in any way she performed that

2094
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:48,430
means now through notes not to letters

2095
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:49,690
not through a third party do you

2096
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:53,890
understand me son and I said yes sir and

2097
01:49:56,460 --> 01:49:55,210
you know at that point I didn't want to

2098
01:50:01,590 --> 01:49:56,470
have anything to do with the guy for

2099
01:50:04,050 --> 01:50:01,600
some reason and then is the meter

2100
01:50:06,030 --> 01:50:04,060
changed and he went from the stern

2101
01:50:09,270 --> 01:50:06,040
aspect to just kind of looking like a

2102
01:50:14,570 --> 01:50:09,280
regular guy and he gets down next close

2103
01:50:17,190 --> 01:50:14,580
to my ear and he says look son I know

2104
01:50:18,780 --> 01:50:17,200
you two knuckleheads stumbled into

2105
01:50:21,300 --> 01:50:18,790
something didn't you

2106
01:50:28,110 --> 01:50:21,310
I know what it was and you know what it

2107
01:50:30,710 --> 01:50:28,120
was don't ya I know you do and he said I

2108
01:50:33,630 --> 01:50:30,720
just want to see a picture she took and

2109
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:33,640
I said sir I I never took a picture I

2110
01:50:38,730 --> 01:50:36,010
never took I said I left my camera at

2111
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:38,740
home my wife will play he's cut me off

2112
01:50:46,170 --> 01:50:41,530
Stern at that background looked at me

2113
01:50:46,530 --> 01:50:46,180
and said I don't believe you and then he

2114
01:50:54,060 --> 01:50:46,540
left

2115
01:50:59,580 --> 01:50:54,070
yeah it's strange guy but terrified me

2116
01:51:03,810 --> 01:50:59,590
to death and this no order contact no

2117
01:51:06,210 --> 01:51:03,820
contact order with Toby was something

2118
01:51:08,870 --> 01:51:06,220
because I did see Toby one last time and

2119
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:08,880
that was kind of poignant and that was

2120
01:51:14,010 --> 01:51:11,170
something I want to talk about that

2121
01:51:16,170 --> 01:51:14,020
briefly but when when it came time to go

2122
01:51:19,590 --> 01:51:16,180
home they gave us what I referred to in

2123
01:51:22,020 --> 01:51:19,600
the book as a bucket of pills and they

2124
01:51:23,550 --> 01:51:22,030
gave us both wine

2125
01:51:27,150 --> 01:51:23,560
sumen they gave Toby I didn't talk to

2126
01:51:29,570 --> 01:51:27,160
him but I had all these capsules and I

2127
01:51:33,180 --> 01:51:29,580
was to take three a day with meals

2128
01:51:36,570 --> 01:51:33,190
warning noon in nighttime and they sent

2129
01:51:39,300 --> 01:51:36,580
a nurse to my house every evening to

2130
01:51:42,930 --> 01:51:39,310
count my pills to make sure that I had

2131
01:51:44,970 --> 01:51:42,940
taken em correctly and about the third

2132
01:51:48,150 --> 01:51:44,980
day of taking these pills my wife's like

2133
01:51:50,330 --> 01:51:48,160
what is wrong with you and I'm like I

2134
01:51:52,980 --> 01:51:50,340
don't know I feel kind of loopy

2135
01:51:54,690 --> 01:51:52,990
she says loopy you're like you like your

2136
01:51:57,570 --> 01:51:54,700
trunk there's something wrong with you

2137
01:51:58,950 --> 01:51:57,580
and she made the connection you know god

2138
01:52:01,920 --> 01:51:58,960
bless her she made a connection said

2139
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:01,930
it's those pills you're takin no you

2140
01:52:06,630 --> 01:52:03,610
know I had a physicians Desk Reference

2141
01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:06,640
which at the time it had a photograph of

2142
01:52:12,060 --> 01:52:09,250
every pill manufactured approved by the

2143
01:52:16,110 --> 01:52:12,070
FDA my god I wish I'd saved just one of

2144
01:52:18,360 --> 01:52:16,120
those capsules I and those capsules were

2145
01:52:20,100 --> 01:52:18,370
not in that PDR anywhere so these these

2146
01:52:25,710 --> 01:52:20,110
were something special made somewhere

2147
01:52:28,710 --> 01:52:25,720
and I stopped taking them and within a

2148
01:52:31,620 --> 01:52:28,720
week I I was back to normal but it was

2149
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:31,630
gradual so we would take and flush him

2150
01:52:35,940 --> 01:52:34,330
down the toilet at every meal so we'd be

2151
01:52:37,410 --> 01:52:35,950
sure if she showed early we had the

2152
01:52:40,710 --> 01:52:37,420
correct number of pills for the pill

2153
01:52:42,810 --> 01:52:40,720
count but I don't know what that would

2154
01:52:48,380 --> 01:52:42,820
have done to Toby's mind had he taken

2155
01:52:51,390 --> 01:52:48,390
you know all 14 days of those pills so

2156
01:52:54,870 --> 01:52:51,400
with the investigation we've got about

2157
01:52:59,520 --> 01:52:54,880
another three or four minutes before the

2158
01:53:03,060 --> 01:52:59,530
top of the hour how how many times did

2159
01:53:06,030 --> 01:53:03,070
they come back and what about filing of

2160
01:53:13,940 --> 01:53:06,040
a report what did they ask you to do how

2161
01:53:17,790 --> 01:53:13,950
intense did it get it got it got intense

2162
01:53:21,870 --> 01:53:17,800
the major Gregory asked me to do a

2163
01:53:23,910 --> 01:53:21,880
written statement and now you know Here

2164
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:23,920
I am I know I'm not going to tell this

2165
01:53:28,050 --> 01:53:26,410
guy saw a UFO five stories tall

2166
01:53:30,030 --> 01:53:28,060
in a city block well I'm not going to

2167
01:53:34,440 --> 01:53:30,040
say that because I know what's going to

2168
01:53:34,899 --> 01:53:34,450
put me in a psych ward I thought but

2169
01:53:37,390 --> 01:53:34,909
then you

2170
01:53:39,910 --> 01:53:37,400
well I wrote on my statement and I just

2171
01:53:43,180 --> 01:53:39,920
I just kind of glossed it over we went

2172
01:53:46,810 --> 01:53:43,190
to bed we got up at 3 a.m. we were bug

2173
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:46,820
Benton and sunburned and so miserable we

2174
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:51,050
decided to come home and just left our

2175
01:53:58,450 --> 01:53:55,850
stuff there by accident and of course

2176
01:54:01,270 --> 01:53:58,460
you know this Gregory guy didn't believe

2177
01:54:03,070 --> 01:54:01,280
that he believed when I was in that

2178
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:03,080
hospital bed and he got down next to my

2179
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:05,330
ear and said you two knuckleheads

2180
01:54:13,209 --> 01:54:09,610
stumbled onto something he knew he knew

2181
01:54:15,100 --> 01:54:13,219
he knew what we saw I had no doubt no

2182
01:54:21,879 --> 01:54:15,110
question he knew it you knew all about

2183
01:54:25,620 --> 01:54:21,889
it and well and this is the other point

2184
01:54:32,070 --> 01:54:25,630
that the audience really needs to absorb

2185
01:54:37,180 --> 01:54:32,080
OSI Office of Special Investigations is

2186
01:54:42,100 --> 01:54:37,190
intimidating and as as somebody in the

2187
01:54:43,810 --> 01:54:42,110
military you always hear about OSI in

2188
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:43,820
the background but as long as you run

2189
01:54:50,770 --> 01:54:46,610
clean you don't bump into those guys but

2190
01:54:51,330 --> 01:54:50,780
if you do bump into those guys it is bad

2191
01:54:53,770 --> 01:54:51,340
news

2192
01:54:57,520 --> 01:54:53,780
you've either done something really bad

2193
01:55:00,040 --> 01:54:57,530
or or their reason for being there is a

2194
01:55:03,610 --> 01:55:00,050
bad situation that you may or may not be

2195
01:55:07,600 --> 01:55:03,620
involved in but nothing good comes of

2196
01:55:09,910 --> 01:55:07,610
that and that is what OSI represents and

2197
01:55:12,430 --> 01:55:09,920
that must have scared the crap out of

2198
01:55:14,709 --> 01:55:12,440
you and you know OSI shows up at the

2199
01:55:17,379 --> 01:55:14,719
hospital where OSI and they're there for

2200
01:55:20,290 --> 01:55:17,389
you everybody snaps to attention

2201
01:55:22,180 --> 01:55:20,300
that's what OSI represents and I know

2202
01:55:24,189 --> 01:55:22,190
that I'm not wrong in painting that

2203
01:55:24,610 --> 01:55:24,199
picture that's exactly what's going on

2204
01:55:31,540 --> 01:55:24,620
here

2205
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:31,550
yes that's that bad deal it really does

2206
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:36,770
I yeah I didn't know how to address

2207
01:55:40,270 --> 01:55:38,090
thing I didn't know what to say

2208
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:40,280
everything I said was wrong and

2209
01:55:44,830 --> 01:55:42,770
everything set the guy off it was well

2210
01:55:46,839 --> 01:55:44,840
what did you say we've got about one

2211
01:55:48,250 --> 01:55:46,849
minute here Terry Oh

2212
01:55:51,279 --> 01:55:48,260
what did you say in your written

2213
01:55:54,279 --> 01:55:51,289
statement in my written statement I said

2214
01:55:56,919 --> 01:55:54,289
that we'd roll down we got there we set

2215
01:56:01,029 --> 01:55:56,929
up our camp well we we made a campfire

2216
01:56:05,649 --> 01:56:01,039
and we you know laid out on Samir

2217
01:56:08,379 --> 01:56:05,659
mattresses and watch the night sky for a

2218
01:56:11,020 --> 01:56:08,389
while with the bed woke up badly

2219
01:56:14,290 --> 01:56:11,030
sunburned and bug bitten and then we

2220
01:56:17,409 --> 01:56:14,300
drove home well you know two years prior

2221
01:56:20,199 --> 01:56:17,419
to this there was another event that I

2222
01:56:22,659 --> 01:56:20,209
talk about in my book and that's the

2223
01:56:26,080 --> 01:56:22,669
event where I wrote the report that our

2224
01:56:29,709 --> 01:56:26,090
CEO took and used a magic marker to

2225
01:56:31,330 --> 01:56:29,719
redact all the times in my report and

2226
01:56:34,719 --> 01:56:31,340
that may be the report you were thinking

2227
01:56:37,629 --> 01:56:34,729
about because that was unusual too but

2228
01:56:40,149 --> 01:56:37,639
as far as for this incident goes it was

2229
01:56:43,239 --> 01:56:40,159
a priest straightforward written report

2230
01:56:45,669 --> 01:56:43,249
just leaving out everything from 9:00

2231
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:45,679
p.m. to 3:00 a.m.

2232
01:56:53,649 --> 01:56:50,570
and Gregory I'm in a we can discuss this

2233
01:56:57,129 --> 01:56:53,659
when we come back but Gregory was also

2234
01:57:00,609 --> 01:56:57,139
asking you leading questions in my

2235
01:57:02,349 --> 01:57:00,619
opinion near the attorney but but you

2236
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:02,359
know why were you guys going there what

2237
01:57:05,919 --> 01:57:04,010
do you mean you didn't take any pictures

2238
01:57:08,139 --> 01:57:05,929
something special happened and you

2239
01:57:11,229 --> 01:57:08,149
didn't take it you know why were you

2240
01:57:13,449 --> 01:57:11,239
guys going there and and and he you know

2241
01:57:16,569 --> 01:57:13,459
these were leading questions he knew the

2242
01:57:22,989 --> 01:57:16,579
answers to but he was trying to get the

2243
01:57:25,209 --> 01:57:22,999
answers out of you absolutely everything

2244
01:57:27,819 --> 01:57:25,219
say yes or no no there's no there's no

2245
01:57:30,009 --> 01:57:27,829
room for for an explanation it's yes or

2246
01:57:31,689 --> 01:57:30,019
no let's take a break right here our

2247
01:57:33,699 --> 01:57:31,699
guest tonight Terry Lovelace we're

2248
01:57:36,159 --> 01:57:33,709
talking about his book and it's an

2249
01:57:37,989 --> 01:57:36,169
amazing read incident at Devil's Den

2250
01:57:40,209 --> 01:57:37,999
this is fade to black I'm yours Jimmy

2251
01:57:42,849 --> 01:57:40,219
Church we're gonna pick it up or we left

2252
01:57:44,300 --> 01:57:42,859
off when we come back stay with us this

2253
01:57:47,310 --> 01:57:44,310
is fade to black

2254
01:57:57,919 --> 01:57:47,320
[Music]

2255
01:58:03,750 --> 01:58:01,200
this is kera digital broadcasting

2256
01:58:08,550 --> 01:58:03,760
station Salt Lake City Utah

2257
01:58:10,950 --> 01:58:08,560
Van Buren Arkansas let's get this man to

2258
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the ER stat right away doctor we see

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and see for yourself you can send us a

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and we urge you to take charge of your

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protect your colon log on to get the T

2317
02:00:42,589 --> 02:00:38,409
comm let's get the t.com get the t.com

2318
02:00:44,790 --> 02:00:42,599
get t-dot-com

2319
02:00:46,500 --> 02:00:44,800
did you know that when you're on the

2320
02:00:48,959 --> 02:00:46,510
road with limited data or Wi-Fi

2321
02:00:51,089 --> 02:00:48,969
available you can still listen to every

2322
02:00:53,669 --> 02:00:51,099
minute of fade to black by just calling

2323
02:00:56,310 --> 02:00:53,679
six oh five five six two four four eight

2324
02:00:58,770 --> 02:00:56,320
two no smart phone app or internet

2325
02:01:00,799 --> 02:00:58,780
needed it saves your data plan and no

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extra cost if you have unlimited minutes

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02:01:06,359 --> 02:01:04,329
just call six oh five five six two four

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02:01:08,489 --> 02:01:06,369
four eight two you can listen to me

2329
02:01:16,350 --> 02:01:08,499
Jimmy Church on any phone anytime

2330
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:20,400
[Music]

2331
02:01:26,770 --> 02:01:22,690
you want to know a secret

2332
02:01:29,740 --> 02:01:26,780
I love ponies I really love ponies I'm

2333
02:01:33,280 --> 02:01:29,750
serious I couldn't stay sane without

2334
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:33,290
poor mr. Brooks I fade to black

2335
02:01:43,520 --> 02:01:41,360
this is fade to black

2336
02:01:47,180 --> 02:01:43,530
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

2337
02:01:49,550 --> 02:01:47,190
radio network and kgr a the global radio

2338
02:02:01,260 --> 02:01:49,560
alliance

2339
02:02:03,400 --> 02:02:01,270
[Music]

2340
02:02:05,230 --> 02:02:03,410
welcome back fade to black humming I'll

2341
02:02:06,670 --> 02:02:05,240
Jimmy Church to follow me on twitter i

2342
02:02:08,670 --> 02:02:06,680
JH radio

2343
02:02:12,910 --> 02:02:08,680
my guest tonight Terry Lovelace

2344
02:02:17,740 --> 02:02:12,920
discussing his amazing book incident at

2345
02:02:19,540 --> 02:02:17,750
Devil's Den and Terry we've got we've

2346
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:19,550
got so much to discuss and I can tell

2347
02:02:24,760 --> 02:02:20,810
that we're gonna do some overtime

2348
02:02:27,490 --> 02:02:24,770
tonight so there you go be prepared for

2349
02:02:30,660 --> 02:02:27,500
that at the bottom of the hour we've got

2350
02:02:37,600 --> 02:02:30,670
too much to get into here but

2351
02:02:39,130 --> 02:02:37,610
immediately after the OSI guys we're

2352
02:02:42,010 --> 02:02:39,140
gonna continue with that but what was

2353
02:02:46,570 --> 02:02:42,020
your treatment like in the airforce

2354
02:02:49,300 --> 02:02:46,580
after that you were an EMT you had very

2355
02:02:51,280 --> 02:02:49,310
specific professional things that you

2356
02:02:55,660 --> 02:02:51,290
did but what how how did they treat you

2357
02:02:59,170 --> 02:02:55,670
after this I I was transferred and I I

2358
02:03:02,530 --> 02:02:59,180
know that they did this to avoid Toby

2359
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:02,540
and I being a contact with one another

2360
02:03:12,310 --> 02:03:08,090
I was I was reassigned to work in a

2361
02:03:14,490 --> 02:03:12,320
supply unit and I'll tell you it was my

2362
02:03:17,410 --> 02:03:14,500
worst experience in the Air Force well

2363
02:03:18,940 --> 02:03:17,420
one of my worst experiences I you know I

2364
02:03:21,630 --> 02:03:18,950
had a lot of good experiences in the Air

2365
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:21,640
Force but this this was not one of them

2366
02:03:28,000 --> 02:03:25,370
so the seal of the hospital was sorry to

2367
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:28,010
lose both of us I mean we were good EMTs

2368
02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:34,010
and I'm in a support unit and I go to

2369
02:03:37,870 --> 02:03:35,690
see my new commanding officer and he

2370
02:03:40,180 --> 02:03:37,880
says you know go down and see First

2371
02:03:42,370 --> 02:03:40,190
Sergeant Rory we don't we don't have

2372
02:03:45,430 --> 02:03:42,380
need for an EMT here but he'll have

2373
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:45,440
something to keep you busy so I went

2374
02:03:53,650 --> 02:03:49,610
down the hall and there was a to his

2375
02:03:57,060 --> 02:03:53,660
door first sergeant rolling something

2376
02:03:59,410 --> 02:03:57,070
and I knocked on his door

2377
02:04:01,150 --> 02:03:59,420
you know CL told me you could call him

2378
02:04:03,130 --> 02:04:01,160
Roy well he didn't want me to call him

2379
02:04:06,970 --> 02:04:03,140
Roy he told me to call him First

2380
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:06,980
Sergeant so on so but just you know just

2381
02:04:14,569 --> 02:04:10,970
this he was a real thin guy which is

2382
02:04:22,850 --> 02:04:20,080
mannerism and just look for like he was

2383
02:04:23,270 --> 02:04:22,860
well I wasn't welcome I'll put it that

2384
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:23,280
way

2385
02:04:28,459 --> 02:04:25,170
and what was your rank at this time I

2386
02:04:32,299 --> 02:04:28,469
Staff Sergeant yeah you're an e5 right

2387
02:04:35,240 --> 02:04:32,309
so you've got your stripes yeah yeah you

2388
02:04:37,879 --> 02:04:35,250
got your stripes and so now obvious well

2389
02:04:43,250 --> 02:04:37,889
you don't know it yet but you've been

2390
02:04:46,430 --> 02:04:43,260
downgraded yeah what they did was in in

2391
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:46,440
back of this of this building the supply

2392
02:04:51,379 --> 02:04:48,210
unit was up was an old building that

2393
02:04:54,169 --> 02:04:51,389
must have been like a woodwork shop at

2394
02:04:55,729 --> 02:04:54,179
one time and first sergeant walked me

2395
02:04:57,979 --> 02:04:55,739
back there any sense yeah he says you

2396
02:05:00,020 --> 02:04:57,989
know I got something I think he's

2397
02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:00,030
pretending he's like yeah you know I got

2398
02:05:03,740 --> 02:05:02,130
something we can we can help you with or

2399
02:05:05,390 --> 02:05:03,750
you can help us with we could really use

2400
02:05:07,549 --> 02:05:05,400
your hand and says here's what I need

2401
02:05:09,770 --> 02:05:07,559
you to do ESA's see this to see that

2402
02:05:12,020 --> 02:05:09,780
stack of plywood over there and I

2403
02:05:16,549 --> 02:05:12,030
thought you know I'm not blind and he

2404
02:05:21,830 --> 02:05:16,559
says I need you to spray-paint 30 sheets

2405
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:21,840
those 4 by 8 pieces of plywood the paint

2406
02:05:26,479 --> 02:05:23,610
is all in that can't the cans in the

2407
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:26,489
corner there and he said here's a key

2408
02:05:32,030 --> 02:05:29,130
come and go as you please you got an

2409
02:05:36,589 --> 02:05:32,040
hour for lunch be here at 8:30 work till

2410
02:05:38,839 --> 02:05:36,599
5:30 and unless you need me I don't

2411
02:05:44,200 --> 02:05:38,849
expect to hear from you so we're talking

2412
02:05:49,819 --> 02:05:44,210
about an e5 Staff Sergeant EMT is now

2413
02:05:53,390 --> 02:05:49,829
spray-painting plywood and it got worse

2414
02:05:57,109 --> 02:05:53,400
and so if it could get any worse and you

2415
02:06:00,649 --> 02:05:57,119
know after a couple of weeks I started

2416
02:06:02,180 --> 02:06:00,659
enjoying the isolation you know because

2417
02:06:04,640 --> 02:06:02,190
the other guys in squad who treated me

2418
02:06:06,500 --> 02:06:04,650
like a pariah so you know I started like

2419
02:06:09,260 --> 02:06:06,510
well you know this is my workshop I'll

2420
02:06:11,270 --> 02:06:09,270
make the best of this and you know I I

2421
02:06:13,430 --> 02:06:11,280
did my dust cuz you know yeah you know I

2422
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:13,440
I'm proud of my work product always have

2423
02:06:16,879 --> 02:06:15,360
been it whether I'm you know practice of

2424
02:06:19,879 --> 02:06:16,889
law or spray painting I want to do a

2425
02:06:21,379 --> 02:06:19,889
good job so I get done and I go and I

2426
02:06:23,959 --> 02:06:21,389
get to per sergeant and I knock on a

2427
02:06:27,350 --> 02:06:23,969
store and I say yeah First Sergeant I'm

2428
02:06:28,130 --> 02:06:27,360
I'm done I'll take a look and he's you

2429
02:06:30,020 --> 02:06:28,140
know he's he's

2430
02:06:35,300 --> 02:06:30,030
feigning this I can tell this is all

2431
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:35,310
fake enthusiasm yeah yeah lovely

2432
02:06:41,060 --> 02:06:37,770
we'll see what you done let's go take a

2433
02:06:43,430 --> 02:06:41,070
look you know and he walked acted yeah

2434
02:06:45,140 --> 02:06:43,440
they look through these these plywood

2435
02:06:47,000 --> 02:06:45,150
boards I paint it looked through maybe a

2436
02:06:50,390 --> 02:06:47,010
half a dozen of them and pointed out a

2437
02:06:55,760 --> 02:06:50,400
spot or two or two painted run and it

2438
02:06:57,380 --> 02:06:55,770
wasn't anything significant and I said

2439
02:06:58,550 --> 02:06:57,390
well you know you got another gun

2440
02:07:01,370 --> 02:06:58,560
something else for me to do maybe

2441
02:07:03,980 --> 02:07:01,380
something a little more cerebral and he

2442
02:07:08,240 --> 02:07:03,990
rubs his chin and he says well let me

2443
02:07:10,880 --> 02:07:08,250
think yeah yeah yeah he says you see you

2444
02:07:13,070 --> 02:07:10,890
see that sandpaper over there go ahead

2445
02:07:17,020 --> 02:07:13,080
and sand them down the bare wood come

2446
02:07:22,040 --> 02:07:17,030
see me when you're done unbelievable and

2447
02:07:25,190 --> 02:07:22,050
and what about agent Gregory oh you know

2448
02:07:28,850 --> 02:07:25,200
I I gotta tell this because this was the

2449
02:07:31,790 --> 02:07:28,860
last time that I saw my friend Toby and

2450
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:31,800
agent Gregory's a part of parcel of him

2451
02:07:39,200 --> 02:07:36,570
oh is this with Sheila yeah my wife is

2452
02:07:41,420 --> 02:07:39,210
driving the car right and I begged I

2453
02:07:43,820 --> 02:07:41,430
said will you please stop by Toby's

2454
02:07:45,650 --> 02:07:43,830
house because I had this compulsion I

2455
02:07:48,170 --> 02:07:45,660
didn't want to I really didn't want to

2456
02:07:50,870 --> 02:07:48,180
see the guy but I thought I had to say

2457
02:07:53,810 --> 02:07:50,880
goodbye to him and it was a strong

2458
02:07:56,090 --> 02:07:53,820
compulsion to say goodbye to him and I

2459
02:07:58,640 --> 02:07:56,100
and I talked her into doing it she

2460
02:08:01,010 --> 02:07:58,650
pulled over and I hopped out of the car

2461
02:08:03,590 --> 02:08:01,020
and I I told her I'll be quick and I ran

2462
02:08:05,060 --> 02:08:03,600
you know through the front door that you

2463
02:08:08,810 --> 02:08:05,070
know I walked through a hundred times

2464
02:08:13,460 --> 02:08:08,820
and before and there's Tammy

2465
02:08:14,600 --> 02:08:13,470
there's Toby's wife you know gives me a

2466
02:08:19,310 --> 02:08:14,610
hard look and says you're not supposed

2467
02:08:21,680 --> 02:08:19,320
to be here and just went on walking away

2468
02:08:24,410 --> 02:08:21,690
and Toby must have heard this exchange

2469
02:08:27,470 --> 02:08:24,420
he walks around the corner and he's a

2470
02:08:32,300 --> 02:08:27,480
train wreck I mean he's wearing a dirty

2471
02:08:36,200 --> 02:08:32,310
t-shirt and he just wasn't Toby and he

2472
02:08:41,479 --> 02:08:36,210
was he was just his jeans were dirty I

2473
02:08:44,810 --> 02:08:41,489
you - ooh Zhan and he walked up to

2474
02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:44,820
yet she and I could smell vodka on his

2475
02:08:51,979 --> 02:08:48,570
breath and this is 11:30 in the morning

2476
02:08:54,970 --> 02:08:51,989
no and I knew Toby could nurse a beer

2477
02:09:01,160 --> 02:08:54,980
for two hours a 12 ounce can of beer

2478
02:09:05,660 --> 02:09:01,170
he was not a drinker and he came and his

2479
02:09:07,700 --> 02:09:05,670
eyes were bloodshot and it was a real

2480
02:09:09,740 --> 02:09:07,710
awkward moment for some reason that

2481
02:09:11,780 --> 02:09:09,750
moment is burned in my memory almost

2482
02:09:14,930 --> 02:09:11,790
like the birth of my kids I don't know

2483
02:09:18,470 --> 02:09:14,940
why but it was important at some level

2484
02:09:21,290 --> 02:09:18,480
and I didn't know I'm standing there

2485
02:09:23,780 --> 02:09:21,300
were 2 feet apart and I didn't I felt

2486
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:23,790
that it be appropriate to embrace him or

2487
02:09:30,470 --> 02:09:27,930
hit me shake his hand but I'm looking at

2488
02:09:32,270 --> 02:09:30,480
my shoes and I said you know I just

2489
02:09:35,680 --> 02:09:32,280
wanted to stop by and wish you well and

2490
02:09:39,320 --> 02:09:35,690
tell you I enjoyed working with you and

2491
02:09:41,330 --> 02:09:39,330
that's he was a short guy and that's

2492
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:41,340
when I when I looked up we made eye

2493
02:09:50,780 --> 02:09:45,650
contact and his eyes were just bloodshot

2494
02:09:53,959 --> 02:09:50,790
and he said it happened didn't it in

2495
02:09:56,150 --> 02:09:53,969
acid yeah told it happened and he said

2496
02:09:59,420 --> 02:09:56,160
we're not crazy I'm not losing my mind

2497
02:10:03,729 --> 02:09:59,430
I said no Toby it happened they're not

2498
02:10:06,290 --> 02:10:03,739
losing your mind and with with that I

2499
02:10:13,580 --> 02:10:06,300
broke my days with him turn around and I

2500
02:10:15,020 --> 02:10:13,590
ran to our car just uh anyway hopped in

2501
02:10:17,479 --> 02:10:15,030
the car there to police there are two

2502
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:17,489
policemen apart car in back of us and

2503
02:10:22,970 --> 02:10:19,650
they got my like him into this parking

2504
02:10:25,940 --> 02:10:22,980
spot and she's crying she's freaked out

2505
02:10:27,320 --> 02:10:25,950
she's gonna arrest us no you got to calm

2506
02:10:29,540 --> 02:10:27,330
down if they were gonna arrest us we'd

2507
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:29,550
be in the and coast right did they

2508
02:10:35,120 --> 02:10:32,250
follow you there or and you were only

2509
02:10:37,820 --> 02:10:35,130
inside for a couple of minutes right you

2510
02:10:41,540 --> 02:10:37,830
know so they were either following you

2511
02:10:44,390 --> 02:10:41,550
or they were watching Toby's place and

2512
02:10:46,220 --> 02:10:44,400
saw you pull up but could be could have

2513
02:10:47,959 --> 02:10:46,230
been happenstance you know we had a

2514
02:10:53,740 --> 02:10:47,969
little orange Karmann Ghia so it was

2515
02:10:55,370 --> 02:10:53,750
kind of an unusual car right but they

2516
02:10:57,350 --> 02:10:55,380
they followed

2517
02:10:59,810 --> 02:10:57,360
right on our bumper well we were coming

2518
02:11:02,899 --> 02:10:59,820
from the grocery store and my wife

2519
02:11:04,939 --> 02:11:02,909
parked and I got her to calm down and I

2520
02:11:06,379 --> 02:11:04,949
grabbed a groceries and run and unlocked

2521
02:11:08,540 --> 02:11:06,389
the door and the phone's ringing

2522
02:11:13,370 --> 02:11:08,550
and I dropped the groceries and I pick

2523
02:11:18,830 --> 02:11:13,380
it up sergeant Lovelace and it's agent

2524
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:18,840
record okay so just to understand you

2525
02:11:23,390 --> 02:11:21,090
walk out of Toby's house you say goodbye

2526
02:11:25,820 --> 02:11:23,400
for the last time he says did this

2527
02:11:30,459 --> 02:11:25,830
really happen we're not crazy he's

2528
02:11:33,709 --> 02:11:30,469
obviously on the edge of losing it you

2529
02:11:37,310 --> 02:11:33,719
get back out to your car

2530
02:11:40,340 --> 02:11:37,320
and then there's a cop car with two cops

2531
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:40,350
in it that has basically blocked you in

2532
02:11:46,610 --> 02:11:43,530
so they've arrived they follow you home

2533
02:11:48,649 --> 02:11:46,620
after all of this you guys walk in

2534
02:11:51,530 --> 02:11:48,659
you're calming your wife down and the

2535
02:11:54,700 --> 02:11:51,540
friggin phone rings and and it's agent

2536
02:11:58,040 --> 02:11:54,710
Lovelace none of this is coincidence

2537
02:11:59,450 --> 02:11:58,050
none those guys parked out in front of

2538
02:12:02,270 --> 02:11:59,460
our house and they stayed there for two

2539
02:12:05,120 --> 02:12:02,280
hours but when it picked up the phone I

2540
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:05,130
said sorry Lovelace and the last person

2541
02:12:11,060 --> 02:12:07,530
I was expecting was agent regularly and

2542
02:12:12,040 --> 02:12:11,070
he says well son you just couldn't do it

2543
02:12:14,479 --> 02:12:12,050
could you

2544
02:12:16,340 --> 02:12:14,489
and I knew what he was talking about and

2545
02:12:20,360 --> 02:12:16,350
I said sir I'm sorry I just wanted to

2546
02:12:22,129 --> 02:12:20,370
say goodbye and and he interrupted me it

2547
02:12:24,590 --> 02:12:22,139
was good at that interrupted me and said

2548
02:12:26,780 --> 02:12:24,600
I want to know what you gave him and I

2549
02:12:29,149 --> 02:12:26,790
want to know what he gave you well you

2550
02:12:32,540 --> 02:12:29,159
signed they gave you a direct written

2551
02:12:40,669 --> 02:12:32,550
order to stay away from Toby

2552
02:12:43,970 --> 02:12:40,679
yes he said you know it really me off

2553
02:12:46,640 --> 02:12:43,980
whenever people disobey my order and he

2554
02:12:50,080 --> 02:12:46,650
said talk about sarcasm he says you're

2555
02:12:53,270 --> 02:12:50,090
just dying to change uniforms aren't you

2556
02:12:54,979 --> 02:12:53,280
that's something I got something in

2557
02:12:56,570 --> 02:12:54,989
black and white stripes that would look

2558
02:12:58,419 --> 02:12:56,580
good on you and I'll take your blue

2559
02:13:00,919 --> 02:12:58,429
uniform would you like that

2560
02:13:02,330 --> 02:13:00,929
and I got this done that took me a

2561
02:13:05,149 --> 02:13:02,340
minute he was talking about out there

2562
02:13:08,900 --> 02:13:05,159
you know Portlander he was talking about

2563
02:13:12,740 --> 02:13:08,910
the penitentiary and I said no sir

2564
02:13:14,110 --> 02:13:12,750
and I just said you know watch yourself

2565
02:13:17,510 --> 02:13:14,120
because I'm watching you

2566
02:13:21,820 --> 02:13:17,520
expletives deleted did he ask you what

2567
02:13:23,870 --> 02:13:21,830
you and Toby talked about yeah he said

2568
02:13:26,180 --> 02:13:23,880
what did he ask where did you exchange

2569
02:13:27,950 --> 02:13:26,190
and he's where did you talk about and I

2570
02:13:30,410 --> 02:13:27,960
said totally the truth I told him I told

2571
02:13:35,770 --> 02:13:30,420
him goodbye I said sir I was in there

2572
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:35,780
maybe four minutes and and that was it

2573
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:38,730
and then I didn't see him again we

2574
02:13:45,080 --> 02:13:41,610
talked to agent Gregory again until the

2575
02:13:49,160 --> 02:13:45,090
interrogation that happened when I was

2576
02:13:51,530 --> 02:13:49,170
in the process of spray-painting one I'm

2577
02:13:54,670 --> 02:13:51,540
sanding off the paint that had just

2578
02:14:01,310 --> 02:13:54,680
particular sleep on these boards and

2579
02:14:03,020 --> 02:14:01,320
it's you know some weeks later and first

2580
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:03,030
sergeant comes out and yells at me since

2581
02:14:09,590 --> 02:14:06,690
Lovelace Co wants to see ya so I'm like

2582
02:14:14,030 --> 02:14:09,600
bassist lock up when I could be bad news

2583
02:14:16,490 --> 02:14:14,040
or good news so I lock up my shop and I

2584
02:14:20,870 --> 02:14:16,500
go running in and I I stop to use a

2585
02:14:24,650 --> 02:14:20,880
bathroom boy am I glad I did and check

2586
02:14:27,950 --> 02:14:24,660
my appearance and hustle down to the

2587
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:27,960
CIO's office and his secretary was there

2588
02:14:35,420 --> 02:14:32,970
and she waved me in and he said sorry

2589
02:14:37,160 --> 02:14:35,430
Lovelace the OSI sent a car for you they

2590
02:14:39,350 --> 02:14:37,170
want to see you at OSI headquarters

2591
02:14:41,270 --> 02:14:39,360
they're out front right now I wouldn't

2592
02:14:42,190 --> 02:14:41,280
keep them waiting if I were you you're

2593
02:14:46,610 --> 02:14:42,200
dismissed

2594
02:14:48,380 --> 02:14:46,620
and I said yes sir and I ran down the

2595
02:14:51,290 --> 02:14:48,390
hall went sure doubt there's a blue car

2596
02:14:53,420 --> 02:14:51,300
right in front and I went and I got

2597
02:14:55,250 --> 02:14:53,430
there was a driver and you open the door

2598
02:14:57,140 --> 02:14:55,260
for me I'd never been in the backseat of

2599
02:15:00,560 --> 02:14:57,150
a police car before I thought I noticed

2600
02:15:06,800 --> 02:15:00,570
you no no hand cranks you know the metal

2601
02:15:09,890 --> 02:15:06,810
floor anyway that's either he drove us a

2602
02:15:12,350 --> 02:15:09,900
few maybe two miles to the OSI

2603
02:15:16,250 --> 02:15:12,360
headquarters which was an intimidating

2604
02:15:18,680 --> 02:15:16,260
building in itself I I described the

2605
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:18,690
book the architecture is Stallman desk

2606
02:15:26,910 --> 02:15:22,050
if that makes sense to you

2607
02:15:31,110 --> 02:15:26,920
if you know I'm a military brat so I've

2608
02:15:35,670 --> 02:15:31,120
been on many Air Force paces and an army

2609
02:15:38,790 --> 02:15:35,680
bases and that is whatever it is whether

2610
02:15:42,540 --> 02:15:38,800
it's OSI civil investigations all of

2611
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:42,550
those military police buildings are very

2612
02:15:46,620 --> 02:15:43,840
Stalin esque

2613
02:15:51,140 --> 02:15:46,630
they stand out they stand down I should

2614
02:15:53,730 --> 02:15:51,150
say yes and he took me down a corridor

2615
02:15:55,110 --> 02:15:53,740
and he had a key we had first we had to

2616
02:15:57,000 --> 02:15:55,120
go through the locked doors with the

2617
02:15:58,890 --> 02:15:57,010
buzzer you know and then the door opens

2618
02:16:02,930 --> 02:15:58,900
and clicks shut behind you like a bank

2619
02:16:05,820 --> 02:16:02,940
vault took me down to this little room

2620
02:16:09,060 --> 02:16:05,830
the rooms were marked alphabetically and

2621
02:16:11,370 --> 02:16:09,070
it took me down to room D and he opened

2622
02:16:11,970 --> 02:16:11,380
the door and said someone will be right

2623
02:16:14,220 --> 02:16:11,980
with you

2624
02:16:17,220 --> 02:16:14,230
and he shut the door and I knew it was

2625
02:16:19,470 --> 02:16:17,230
locked and in this in this room there

2626
02:16:21,480 --> 02:16:19,480
were three those fiberglass molded

2627
02:16:26,100 --> 02:16:21,490
plastic chair as they made in the 60s

2628
02:16:31,260 --> 02:16:26,110
and like a 1950's vintage military steel

2629
02:16:32,820 --> 02:16:31,270
desk with a heavy padded chair and there

2630
02:16:34,860 --> 02:16:32,830
was a two-way mirror there was a I

2631
02:16:36,690 --> 02:16:34,870
didn't go and cut my hands and look

2632
02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:36,700
through it but I remember thinking

2633
02:16:40,350 --> 02:16:38,170
nobody's going to be grooming themselves

2634
02:16:43,200 --> 02:16:40,360
in this interrogation room that's that

2635
02:16:45,419 --> 02:16:43,210
that's got to be what that's for it was

2636
02:16:49,860 --> 02:16:45,429
a clock on the wall and that was it

2637
02:16:52,890 --> 02:16:49,870
little glass window and I sat down it

2638
02:16:55,379 --> 02:16:52,900
was little after 9:00 and it was a

2639
02:16:58,290 --> 02:16:55,389
little after 10:00 and then it was a

2640
02:17:00,510 --> 02:16:58,300
little after 11:00 and I was so thankful

2641
02:17:06,360 --> 02:17:00,520
I made that stop the bathroom for our

2642
02:17:10,890 --> 02:17:06,370
left and around noon here comes agent

2643
02:17:13,080 --> 02:17:10,900
Gregory and the captain and the guy

2644
02:17:16,500 --> 02:17:13,090
opens the door for them and they come in

2645
02:17:21,350 --> 02:17:16,510
and then say word to me at first

2646
02:17:26,910 --> 02:17:21,360
clearly ignore me they're talking about

2647
02:17:28,410 --> 02:17:26,920
golf and he made me of course he made me

2648
02:17:29,790 --> 02:17:28,420
get out of the heavy padded chair and

2649
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:29,800
sitting one of the uncomfortable ones

2650
02:17:35,350 --> 02:17:33,290
and he said

2651
02:17:38,680 --> 02:17:35,360
and the captain setting up his little

2652
02:17:41,440 --> 02:17:38,690
wheel reel tape recorder and he said why

2653
02:17:43,180 --> 02:17:41,450
do you have any film for me son and I

2654
02:17:45,280 --> 02:17:43,190
said no sir I don't have any film for

2655
02:17:47,530 --> 02:17:45,290
you I didn't take any kid pictures I

2656
02:17:50,260 --> 02:17:47,540
didn't take a camera there and he says

2657
02:17:52,180 --> 02:17:50,270
well it doesn't matter much today he

2658
02:17:54,701 --> 02:17:52,190
says we might just wrap this up today

2659
02:17:57,730 --> 02:17:54,711
would you like that and I said yes sir

2660
02:17:58,871 --> 02:17:57,740
I'd like that very much and he says well

2661
02:18:02,201 --> 02:17:58,881
you know you're gonna be hypnotized

2662
02:18:05,860 --> 02:18:02,211
today and I said what I'm gonna be

2663
02:18:07,300 --> 02:18:05,870
hypnotized and he says yeah yeah they're

2664
02:18:10,530 --> 02:18:07,310
gonna give you a little medication and

2665
02:18:13,331 --> 02:18:10,540
they're gonna ask you some questions and

2666
02:18:16,661 --> 02:18:13,341
I said sir but wide and as soon as I

2667
02:18:19,960 --> 02:18:16,671
said that word why he pulled this sheet

2668
02:18:21,940 --> 02:18:19,970
out from that manila folder and slams it

2669
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:21,950
on a desk in front of me and said this

2670
02:18:26,520 --> 02:18:25,040
is all the why I need son you signed it

2671
02:18:30,340 --> 02:18:26,530
oh yeah

2672
02:18:34,900 --> 02:18:30,350
yeah no idea what I'd signed I'd say and

2673
02:18:36,940 --> 02:18:34,910
it was captioned consent hypnotic

2674
02:18:41,081 --> 02:18:36,950
regression with chemical enhancements

2675
02:18:43,960 --> 02:18:41,091
something along those lines and I said

2676
02:18:45,701 --> 02:18:43,970
sir but I don't understand why and and

2677
02:18:47,291 --> 02:18:45,711
he said that same line he says well I

2678
02:18:49,720 --> 02:18:47,301
can carry these up you want to rescind

2679
02:18:51,310 --> 02:18:49,730
your cooperation I'll just tear these up

2680
02:18:55,600 --> 02:18:51,320
and we'll see you court-martial

2681
02:18:57,880 --> 02:18:55,610
that's the threat and it worked it

2682
02:19:00,280 --> 02:18:57,890
worked it worth for me it would work for

2683
02:19:03,420 --> 02:19:00,290
me I'm I'm cool think you mean the drugs

2684
02:19:08,951 --> 02:19:03,430
us do the hypnosis that beats prison

2685
02:19:11,500 --> 02:19:08,961
yeah right and this major knocks on the

2686
02:19:13,871 --> 02:19:11,510
door and the captain leans over and

2687
02:19:16,510 --> 02:19:13,881
opens the door for him and it comes in

2688
02:19:19,331 --> 02:19:16,520
and he's carrying like a cheating kid

2689
02:19:23,560 --> 02:19:19,341
under his arm Oh like a leather little

2690
02:19:25,541 --> 02:19:23,570
kid and he talks to the - guy - the two

2691
02:19:27,670 --> 02:19:25,551
agents - Gregory and a captain about

2692
02:19:28,720 --> 02:19:27,680
fishing I guess he didn't golf and

2693
02:19:31,420 --> 02:19:28,730
they're they're having a little

2694
02:19:33,940 --> 02:19:31,430
conversation and he ignored me you know

2695
02:19:35,740 --> 02:19:33,950
at first and then he pulls the chair he

2696
02:19:37,451 --> 02:19:35,750
gets he makes Gregory get out of the

2697
02:19:40,810 --> 02:19:37,461
comfortable chair and he commandeer is

2698
02:19:42,911 --> 02:19:40,820
it and rolls it over and scoots it right

2699
02:19:46,640 --> 02:19:42,921
and coaches in my personal space gets

2700
02:19:51,591 --> 02:19:46,650
right up next to me and even he's a big

2701
02:19:56,091 --> 02:19:51,601
chested sandy-haired guy with oak leaves

2702
02:19:59,511 --> 02:19:56,101
but no name tag and he sits down next to

2703
02:20:01,910 --> 02:19:59,521
me he got this great big smile he shakes

2704
02:20:04,730 --> 02:20:01,920
my hand and he says sergeant love is

2705
02:20:10,041 --> 02:20:04,740
it's so good to finally meet you how are

2706
02:20:13,520 --> 02:20:10,051
you and I said I'm good sir Isis don't

2707
02:20:16,251 --> 02:20:13,530
sir he says listen for todays for the

2708
02:20:19,070 --> 02:20:16,261
purpose of today's a little exercise why

2709
02:20:23,360 --> 02:20:19,080
don't you call me Brad that is my name

2710
02:20:27,591 --> 02:20:23,370
and at that that's creepy

2711
02:20:32,660 --> 02:20:27,601
and I said yes sir Annie Dee chided me

2712
02:20:36,051 --> 02:20:32,670
and said don't you mean yes Brad and I

2713
02:20:37,820 --> 02:20:36,061
said yes Brad and he said what and for

2714
02:20:41,240 --> 02:20:37,830
purposes of today's little exercise me I

2715
02:20:46,371 --> 02:20:41,250
call you Terry is just creeping me out

2716
02:20:52,551 --> 02:20:46,381
man this is just creeping me out okay

2717
02:20:55,671 --> 02:20:52,561
continue oh man I said yes and then he

2718
02:20:57,501 --> 02:20:55,681
started conversation just routine small

2719
02:20:59,751 --> 02:20:57,511
talk he asked me where I was from I told

2720
02:21:02,180 --> 02:20:59,761
him some st. Louis I rattle off some

2721
02:21:05,751 --> 02:21:02,190
landmarks he rattle off some landmarks

2722
02:21:10,690 --> 02:21:05,761
didn't he Terry refresh my memory didn't

2723
02:21:14,360 --> 02:21:10,700
he say don't you trust me yes man yes

2724
02:21:16,400 --> 02:21:14,370
yeah that was right after right after we

2725
02:21:17,810 --> 02:21:16,410
go through all this little chitchat and

2726
02:21:19,791 --> 02:21:17,820
I swear it's like he read my mind

2727
02:21:23,631 --> 02:21:19,801
cuz I begin thinking you know I'm just

2728
02:21:26,480 --> 02:21:23,641
not all that interest in it and he

2729
02:21:29,150 --> 02:21:26,490
shifts gears and takes on a real sombre

2730
02:21:34,551 --> 02:21:29,160
effect and says Terry I know we've only

2731
02:21:41,350 --> 02:21:34,561
just met but do you trust me and I gave

2732
02:21:45,711 --> 02:21:41,360
him the you know untruthful answer right

2733
02:21:49,430 --> 02:21:45,721
yes Brad I trust you and he says good

2734
02:21:51,320 --> 02:21:49,440
that's good that you trust me and he

2735
02:21:54,470 --> 02:21:51,330
says well today we're going to give you

2736
02:21:56,091 --> 02:21:54,480
a little medication and it's gonna help

2737
02:21:57,860 --> 02:21:56,101
you relax and it's going to help your

2738
02:22:00,590 --> 02:21:57,870
memory and you open this little shaving

2739
02:22:02,630 --> 02:22:00,600
kit and he lays out a little towel and

2740
02:22:06,530 --> 02:22:02,640
a syringe I have a demux Rindge with a

2741
02:22:10,910 --> 02:22:06,540
with a yellow fluid in it some alcohol

2742
02:22:12,710 --> 02:22:10,920
swabs a bandage yellow rubber tubing

2743
02:22:16,389 --> 02:22:12,720
rubber tubing yeah

2744
02:22:23,240 --> 02:22:16,399
yep the rubber tubing and he's humming

2745
02:22:25,880 --> 02:22:23,250
and he reached over and unbuttons my my

2746
02:22:29,389 --> 02:22:25,890
sleeve on my shirt starts to roll my

2747
02:22:31,729 --> 02:22:29,399
sleeve up and stops and says Terry you

2748
02:22:35,870 --> 02:22:31,739
know what we don't really have to do

2749
02:22:38,689 --> 02:22:35,880
this today you know what we could do if

2750
02:22:41,090 --> 02:22:38,699
you left something out of your report or

2751
02:22:43,670 --> 02:22:41,100
there's something you want to change we

2752
02:22:47,750 --> 02:22:43,680
can fix it now and it won't be any

2753
02:22:49,670 --> 02:22:47,760
trouble would you like to do that and I

2754
02:22:52,580 --> 02:22:49,680
said sir I don't I don't know what you

2755
02:22:55,370 --> 02:22:52,590
mean and he said I can ask these two

2756
02:22:56,660 --> 02:22:55,380
gentlemen here to step outside and me

2757
02:23:01,729 --> 02:22:56,670
and you can have a little chat

2758
02:23:05,660 --> 02:23:01,739
Oh what do you say hmm and the agent

2759
02:23:07,849 --> 02:23:05,670
stood up and I said sir I don't I told

2760
02:23:10,219 --> 02:23:07,859
the agents everything I know and the

2761
02:23:13,670 --> 02:23:10,229
agent said that now and he rolled up my

2762
02:23:19,550 --> 02:23:13,680
sleeve and put this tourniquet on my arm

2763
02:23:21,920 --> 02:23:19,560
and this just bizarre he he complimented

2764
02:23:25,309 --> 02:23:21,930
me on my veins he says my you have good

2765
02:23:28,790 --> 02:23:25,319
things this is gonna be no problem at

2766
02:23:30,290 --> 02:23:28,800
all you know this won't hurt it made a

2767
02:23:31,880 --> 02:23:30,300
comment you know Terry it'll be like

2768
02:23:33,710 --> 02:23:31,890
having a couple beers you look like a

2769
02:23:36,139 --> 02:23:33,720
guy who likes to have a few beers on the

2770
02:23:37,340 --> 02:23:36,149
weekend and I thought you jerk you know

2771
02:23:42,229 --> 02:23:37,350
you know what do you think all enlisted

2772
02:23:44,090 --> 02:23:42,239
people drink you know let's you know now

2773
02:23:48,380 --> 02:23:44,100
we're gonna be headed towards a break

2774
02:23:50,540 --> 02:23:48,390
here and when we come back we'll discuss

2775
02:23:53,960 --> 02:23:50,550
everything that happened in this session

2776
02:23:57,559 --> 02:23:53,970
but there was something that stood out

2777
02:24:01,750 --> 02:23:57,569
in the book for me that I've been

2778
02:24:04,729 --> 02:24:01,760
wanting to ask you about at this point

2779
02:24:09,649 --> 02:24:04,739
Gregory I believe it was Gregory one of

2780
02:24:12,649 --> 02:24:09,659
the two agents Gregory says something to

2781
02:24:14,389 --> 02:24:12,659
the effect of oh man this is so cool I

2782
02:24:16,429 --> 02:24:14,399
love it when we

2783
02:24:20,080 --> 02:24:16,439
do this I could have the wording wrong

2784
02:24:25,969 --> 02:24:20,090
it doesn't matter but but at that point

2785
02:24:29,859 --> 02:24:25,979
it's suggesting that Gregory has done

2786
02:24:33,380 --> 02:24:29,869
these types of sessions with

2787
02:24:36,830 --> 02:24:33,390
experiencers right with people that

2788
02:24:39,019 --> 02:24:36,840
that's that's what I get out of this and

2789
02:24:41,840 --> 02:24:39,029
actually it wasn't regular it was the

2790
02:24:45,019 --> 02:24:41,850
captain and what he said was he said

2791
02:24:48,080 --> 02:24:45,029
they're whispering and I could hear them

2792
02:24:50,899 --> 02:24:48,090
and and he said I'm amazed every time I

2793
02:24:56,210 --> 02:24:50,909
see this right right right right and so

2794
02:24:58,099 --> 02:24:56,220
so they're doing these UFO you know

2795
02:25:01,969 --> 02:24:58,109
correct me if I'm wrong but they're

2796
02:25:05,210 --> 02:25:01,979
doing these UFO sessions quite often

2797
02:25:09,080 --> 02:25:05,220
that's what I get out of it had to be

2798
02:25:11,269 --> 02:25:09,090
right they can't do this to everyone who

2799
02:25:12,830 --> 02:25:11,279
sees a UFO and then I thought well my

2800
02:25:17,599 --> 02:25:12,840
experience was actually a little more

2801
02:25:20,689 --> 02:25:17,609
intimate you know and I don't know if I

2802
02:25:24,590 --> 02:25:20,699
had time to get this out and understood

2803
02:25:26,960 --> 02:25:24,600
but I made my mind up I was determined

2804
02:25:29,630 --> 02:25:26,970
that I was not going to be hypnotized

2805
02:25:31,370 --> 02:25:29,640
and I knew I I had been taking

2806
02:25:33,830 --> 02:25:31,380
psychology classes part-time for two

2807
02:25:36,260 --> 02:25:33,840
years now and I knew a little bit about

2808
02:25:38,420 --> 02:25:36,270
hypnosis and I had seen stage hypnosis

2809
02:25:41,269 --> 02:25:38,430
and I knew that you know how people

2810
02:25:44,540 --> 02:25:41,279
react kind of robotic ly and relaxed and

2811
02:25:48,139 --> 02:25:44,550
I was determined I was not gonna let

2812
02:25:51,439 --> 02:25:48,149
this guy hypnotize me but I knew that I

2813
02:25:54,859 --> 02:25:51,449
had to appear compliant not now the drug

2814
02:25:58,819 --> 02:25:54,869
concerned me because I could resist the

2815
02:26:01,939 --> 02:25:58,829
the hypnosis but the drug I had no power

2816
02:26:05,960 --> 02:26:01,949
over and there are there are spaces

2817
02:26:10,279 --> 02:26:05,970
where I had have no memory but what I

2818
02:26:13,239 --> 02:26:10,289
did was he this major said and he had

2819
02:26:16,699 --> 02:26:13,249
this smooth voice like a radio announcer

2820
02:26:21,199 --> 02:26:16,709
and he says okay Terry now you still

2821
02:26:23,929 --> 02:26:21,209
trust me yes Brad and he says okay what

2822
02:26:26,210 --> 02:26:23,939
you sit back close your eyes you know

2823
02:26:28,041 --> 02:26:26,220
and then he gave me the injection and

2824
02:26:32,060 --> 02:26:28,051
then ASIS you know I thought this

2825
02:26:34,280 --> 02:26:32,070
flush warm all over me and I really did

2826
02:26:37,820 --> 02:26:34,290
feel sedated I thought I felt sedated

2827
02:26:41,301 --> 02:26:37,830
and I'm fighting to keep conscious and

2828
02:26:43,371 --> 02:26:41,311
to keep my wits about me the last thing

2829
02:26:46,640 --> 02:26:43,381
I'm gonna do is surrender my mind at the

2830
02:26:50,301 --> 02:26:46,650
sky right I'm gonna resist this with

2831
02:26:52,461 --> 02:26:50,311
everything I got and he had me sister

2832
02:26:54,951 --> 02:26:52,471
we're gonna go down Terry I want you to

2833
02:26:57,650 --> 02:26:54,961
imagine stairs just a stairwell can you

2834
02:26:59,541 --> 02:26:57,660
see it in your mind it's 10 stairs and

2835
02:27:01,520 --> 02:26:59,551
it goes down to a basement can you see

2836
02:27:04,610 --> 02:27:01,530
it you're gonna take the first step now

2837
02:27:07,220 --> 02:27:04,620
you're going down feel relaxed take it a

2838
02:27:09,171 --> 02:27:07,230
next step feeling ten times more relaxed

2839
02:27:11,030 --> 02:27:09,181
and doing that kind of thing and I'm

2840
02:27:13,310 --> 02:27:11,040
thinking you know what I'll go backward

2841
02:27:17,150 --> 02:27:13,320
on the number line you know he's going

2842
02:27:20,121 --> 02:27:17,160
down I'll go up you know so I'm counting

2843
02:27:22,610 --> 02:27:20,131
you know backward ten nine and

2844
02:27:27,560 --> 02:27:22,620
visualizing myself coming out of the

2845
02:27:30,081 --> 02:27:27,570
basement instead of going down and he

2846
02:27:32,211 --> 02:27:30,091
gets to this point he goes through this

2847
02:27:34,761 --> 02:27:32,221
long thing about feeling relaxed and

2848
02:27:37,400 --> 02:27:34,771
having me relax different parts of my

2849
02:27:40,730 --> 02:27:37,410
body and what I did was I flexed and

2850
02:27:44,241 --> 02:27:40,740
tensed my buttocks parts of my body that

2851
02:27:47,091 --> 02:27:44,251
I could tense without without it being

2852
02:27:49,011 --> 02:27:47,101
noticed just everything I could to

2853
02:27:53,780 --> 02:27:49,021
resist this guy and was just

2854
02:27:55,400 --> 02:27:53,790
surrendering him my mind and III did

2855
02:27:57,501 --> 02:27:55,410
multiplication tables in my head I

2856
02:28:02,570 --> 02:27:57,511
played beautiful songs in my head over

2857
02:28:05,480 --> 02:28:02,580
and over again and did it work yeah

2858
02:28:07,220 --> 02:28:05,490
yeah and we're gonna talk about that

2859
02:28:10,671 --> 02:28:07,230
when we come back after this break we

2860
02:28:12,801 --> 02:28:10,681
get with an amazing conversation tonight

2861
02:28:14,751 --> 02:28:12,811
Terry and thank you for sharing all of

2862
02:28:17,451 --> 02:28:14,761
this stay right there we're gonna be

2863
02:28:20,060 --> 02:28:17,461
doing overtime with Terry Lovelace for

2864
02:28:21,381 --> 02:28:20,070
discussing his book incident at Devil's

2865
02:28:23,900 --> 02:28:21,391
Den I'm here to meet Church

2866
02:28:25,590 --> 02:28:23,910
this is fade to black stay with us thank

2867
02:28:26,671 --> 02:28:25,600
you so much for this Terry

2868
02:28:29,790 --> 02:28:26,681
[Music]

2869
02:28:57,519 --> 02:28:29,800
we'll be right back stay with us

2870
02:29:00,739 --> 02:28:57,529
[Music]

2871
02:29:06,139 --> 02:29:00,749
and you are listening to my boy Jimmy

2872
02:29:09,349 --> 02:29:06,149
Church on Jimmy Church radio.com this my

2873
02:29:19,689 --> 02:29:09,359
popular opinion reading a book will not

2874
02:29:23,330 --> 02:29:19,699
make you smarter hurricanes earthquakes

2875
02:29:25,819 --> 02:29:23,340
wildfires this year we've experienced

2876
02:29:28,099 --> 02:29:25,829
more than our fair share this is Jimmy

2877
02:29:30,439 --> 02:29:28,109
Church of fade to black and last month I

2878
02:29:32,630 --> 02:29:30,449
decided to make sure my family does not

2879
02:29:35,349 --> 02:29:32,640
have to worry about food should we get

2880
02:29:38,239 --> 02:29:35,359
caught in a real emergency situation

2881
02:29:40,069 --> 02:29:38,249
introducing Humana healthy storable

2882
02:29:42,229 --> 02:29:40,079
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2883
02:29:44,540 --> 02:29:42,239
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2884
02:29:46,580 --> 02:29:44,550
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2885
02:29:50,119 --> 02:29:46,590
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2886
02:29:52,699 --> 02:29:50,129
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2887
02:29:54,859 --> 02:29:52,709
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2888
02:29:56,449 --> 02:29:54,869
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2889
02:29:59,000 --> 02:29:56,459
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2890
02:30:02,179 --> 02:29:59,010
protected your family not only have I

2891
02:30:04,580 --> 02:30:02,189
tasted and tested I own it now you can

2892
02:30:06,710 --> 02:30:04,590
too just click on the new mana banner on

2893
02:30:09,170 --> 02:30:06,720
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2894
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about something serious for a minute

2920
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your age getting old has its perks

2921
02:31:25,189 --> 02:31:22,619
but remember being a few years younger

2922
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you know your hair was thicker you

2923
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didn't have so many wrinkles that extra

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weight wasn't haunting you and you just

2925
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felt better well we can't turn back the

2926
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clocks and go back 10 or 15 years but

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15 years younger with nature's youth RSF

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2938
02:32:02,449 --> 02:32:00,569
will feel when your family and friends

2939
02:32:04,819 --> 02:32:02,459
are asking you what you did to look so

2940
02:32:07,130 --> 02:32:04,829
good your secret will be nature's youth

2941
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RSF it's time to start looking better

2942
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2943
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it's not a lifestyle we chose we were

2945
02:32:41,260 --> 02:32:36,489
born this way k GRA radio.com this is KJ

2946
02:32:41,270 --> 02:32:52,691
[Music]

2947
02:32:57,521 --> 02:32:54,970
all right welcome back fade to black i'm

2948
02:32:59,141 --> 02:32:57,531
your host jimmy church heading into some

2949
02:33:02,081 --> 02:32:59,151
overtime with our guest tonight

2950
02:33:04,961 --> 02:33:02,091
Terry Lovelace discussing his book and

2951
02:33:07,691 --> 02:33:04,971
it's an incredible read incident at

2952
02:33:11,531 --> 02:33:07,701
Devil's Den the links for the book are

2953
02:33:13,921 --> 02:33:11,541
over at Jimmy Church radio.com and Terry

2954
02:33:17,411 --> 02:33:13,931
I do want to thank you in advance for

2955
02:33:21,041 --> 02:33:17,421
for this conversation tonight and where

2956
02:33:23,521 --> 02:33:21,051
this leads now I'm gonna help you along

2957
02:33:29,741 --> 02:33:23,531
a little bit because at the beginning of

2958
02:33:32,251 --> 02:33:29,751
the session you you go over you're still

2959
02:33:35,341 --> 02:33:32,261
you think you're in control by the way

2960
02:33:42,101 --> 02:33:35,351
in reading the book I'm not so sure but

2961
02:33:44,321 --> 02:33:42,111
you go through everything with Toby and

2962
02:33:47,141 --> 02:33:44,331
and you describe how you got to the

2963
02:33:50,741 --> 02:33:47,151
campsite again leading questions coming

2964
02:33:53,591 --> 02:33:50,751
from Brad because they apparently know

2965
02:33:56,321 --> 02:33:53,601
everything there's something that I

2966
02:34:00,220 --> 02:33:56,331
wanted to ask you that isn't in the book

2967
02:34:03,401 --> 02:34:00,230
do you think that they have already now

2968
02:34:05,321 --> 02:34:03,411
looking back in hindsight did they get

2969
02:34:09,641 --> 02:34:05,331
this information from Toby did they

2970
02:34:12,491 --> 02:34:09,651
already interrogate Toby that's a

2971
02:34:15,491 --> 02:34:12,501
question I would love to have answered I

2972
02:34:17,201 --> 02:34:15,501
don't know right but I don't think so

2973
02:34:20,381 --> 02:34:17,211
but I don't know you know

2974
02:34:22,361 --> 02:34:20,391
that bucket of pillows those pills I

2975
02:34:24,161 --> 02:34:22,371
don't know what kind of mental condition

2976
02:34:27,041 --> 02:34:24,171
that put him in like I said he was a

2977
02:34:31,180 --> 02:34:27,051
train wreck when I saw him right god

2978
02:34:32,741 --> 02:34:31,190
knows what he told these guys so and and

2979
02:34:34,451 --> 02:34:32,751
and I could see the reason why they

2980
02:34:37,751 --> 02:34:34,461
separated us you know they didn't want

2981
02:34:39,761 --> 02:34:37,761
us to get together and say you know get

2982
02:34:43,301 --> 02:34:39,771
their stories Yeah right right right

2983
02:34:49,180 --> 02:34:43,311
right right absolutely so okay so back

2984
02:34:52,541 --> 02:34:49,190
to the session so you go through setting

2985
02:34:55,451 --> 02:34:52,551
up how you guys got there Toby led you

2986
02:34:59,281 --> 02:34:55,461
there and the campsite and so forth but

2987
02:35:03,311 --> 02:34:59,291
then they get to I want to pick up here

2988
02:35:05,321 --> 02:35:03,321
they get to the lights in the sky they

2989
02:35:06,270 --> 02:35:05,331
know about the stars right they know

2990
02:35:08,700 --> 02:35:06,280
about the lights

2991
02:35:11,430 --> 02:35:08,710
and I find that very compelling very

2992
02:35:14,870 --> 02:35:11,440
interesting and so I want to pick up

2993
02:35:20,580 --> 02:35:14,880
there because immediately after that you

2994
02:35:22,530 --> 02:35:20,590
go into your childhood and that's where

2995
02:35:24,960 --> 02:35:22,540
I want to lead up to so they start

2996
02:35:27,570 --> 02:35:24,970
asking you about the lights in the sky

2997
02:35:29,700 --> 02:35:27,580
then you describe the craft coming down

2998
02:35:33,270 --> 02:35:29,710
so let's let's pick up there I want to

2999
02:35:37,080 --> 02:35:33,280
try to get as much in before we wrap in

3000
02:35:40,650 --> 02:35:37,090
the next 15 minutes yes and Toby's name

3001
02:35:44,280 --> 02:35:40,660
was mentioned yes yes it was because any

3002
02:35:47,460 --> 02:35:44,290
interrogation Brad said you and you and

3003
02:35:50,220 --> 02:35:47,470
Toby you saw some lights in the sky

3004
02:35:52,980 --> 02:35:50,230
didn't you but they weren't lights were

3005
02:35:56,640 --> 02:35:52,990
they carried forth they were stars were

3006
02:35:58,560 --> 02:35:56,650
they and he was big on these now look I

3007
02:36:01,410 --> 02:35:58,570
want you to look in your mind's eye and

3008
02:36:02,850 --> 02:36:01,420
tell me what you see you know don't give

3009
02:36:05,310 --> 02:36:02,860
me your opinion or what you think tell

3010
02:36:08,160 --> 02:36:05,320
me what you see and we'll step in the

3011
02:36:12,810 --> 02:36:08,170
effect of this drug because I I had

3012
02:36:15,000 --> 02:36:12,820
images that come to mind that I don't

3013
02:36:16,980 --> 02:36:15,010
know where they come from but yeah he

3014
02:36:18,240 --> 02:36:16,990
said you know they weren't stars were

3015
02:36:21,510 --> 02:36:18,250
they uh

3016
02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:21,520
and I said no Brad they weren't and he

3017
02:36:27,990 --> 02:36:25,570
says well who were they Jerry tell me

3018
02:36:31,410 --> 02:36:28,000
who were they and I said they were the

3019
02:36:33,030 --> 02:36:31,420
space people and I I felt like somebody

3020
02:36:36,660 --> 02:36:33,040
smacked me in the face I thought what

3021
02:36:40,500 --> 02:36:36,670
had to come out of my mouth what what

3022
02:36:45,630 --> 02:36:40,510
you know where did that come from and I

3023
02:36:48,720 --> 02:36:45,640
realized that I'm without thinking I'm

3024
02:36:53,430 --> 02:36:48,730
answering some of these questions and it

3025
02:36:55,230 --> 02:36:53,440
must be must be the the drug that they

3026
02:36:57,030 --> 02:36:55,240
gave me because I certainly did

3027
02:37:01,320 --> 02:36:57,040
everything I could to resist the

3028
02:37:05,700 --> 02:37:01,330
hypnosis and like you said I I think it

3029
02:37:09,030 --> 02:37:05,710
was not a failed hypnosis but a a faulty

3030
02:37:11,400 --> 02:37:09,040
hypno salty right all right and you know

3031
02:37:13,010 --> 02:37:11,410
what it did was it brought back all of

3032
02:37:17,910 --> 02:37:13,020
these memories it brought back memories

3033
02:37:22,790 --> 02:37:17,920
from my childhood because he asked

3034
02:37:27,420 --> 02:37:22,800
me about the monkey man and when I was

3035
02:37:30,330 --> 02:37:27,430
eight years old I had terrifying

3036
02:37:32,910 --> 02:37:30,340
nightmares about these poor little

3037
02:37:38,460 --> 02:37:32,920
monkeys that would come into my room at

3038
02:37:39,929 --> 02:37:38,470
night and they were it was always the

3039
02:37:43,110 --> 02:37:39,939
same they would come in and form a

3040
02:37:48,270 --> 02:37:43,120
semicircle around my dad with my back to

3041
02:37:51,960 --> 02:37:48,280
the wall and they this is I know ad they

3042
02:37:55,050 --> 02:37:51,970
all wore white masks with this big broad

3043
02:37:58,950 --> 02:37:55,060
smile painted on them and they had

3044
02:38:02,610 --> 02:37:58,960
yellow eyes and long tails and they were

3045
02:38:03,870 --> 02:38:02,620
like look like circus monkeys and the

3046
02:38:05,850 --> 02:38:03,880
one closest to me

3047
02:38:07,920 --> 02:38:05,860
we're always talked to me but his lips

3048
02:38:10,290 --> 02:38:07,930
never moved but I heard him in my head

3049
02:38:12,960 --> 02:38:10,300
and he would say Carrie

3050
02:38:16,380 --> 02:38:12,970
won't you come with us come with us and

3051
02:38:19,140 --> 02:38:16,390
play and I remember thinking a couple

3052
02:38:22,530 --> 02:38:19,150
times did I go with them before have I

3053
02:38:25,950 --> 02:38:22,540
done this before and he would hold out a

3054
02:38:28,410 --> 02:38:25,960
paw and say come with us Terry and I

3055
02:38:31,500 --> 02:38:28,420
would scream bloody murder and these

3056
02:38:35,280 --> 02:38:31,510
things would just go - shadows in the

3057
02:38:39,120 --> 02:38:35,290
wall and be gone but one of the most

3058
02:38:41,520 --> 02:38:39,130
horrific nightmares that I have is I'm

3059
02:38:42,270 --> 02:38:41,530
in that situation I'm 8 years old I'm in

3060
02:38:44,880 --> 02:38:42,280
bed

3061
02:38:48,630 --> 02:38:44,890
the monkeys come in the room the one

3062
02:38:50,460 --> 02:38:48,640
closest to me holds out his paw and I

3063
02:38:52,620 --> 02:38:50,470
look and it's not a paw

3064
02:38:56,670 --> 02:38:52,630
it's this hand with these four long

3065
02:38:59,070 --> 02:38:56,680
fingers and for some reason well when I

3066
02:39:02,340 --> 02:38:59,080
see that in my dream that that's the

3067
02:39:07,550 --> 02:39:02,350
point where I scream because that just

3068
02:39:11,429 --> 02:39:07,560
just freaks me out and Brad Brad

3069
02:39:16,670 --> 02:39:11,439
connected the monkey men to you and Toby

3070
02:39:20,730 --> 02:39:16,680
in the meadow somehow yes someone yes

3071
02:39:22,500 --> 02:39:20,740
yeah the space people right right yeah

3072
02:39:24,450 --> 02:39:22,510
does he kept asking about the space

3073
02:39:26,670 --> 02:39:24,460
people and I said it's the monkey man

3074
02:39:30,510 --> 02:39:26,680
and that's what he wanted to know who

3075
02:39:32,660 --> 02:39:30,520
the monkey man were against stuff from

3076
02:39:37,770 --> 02:39:32,670
when I was a little kid

3077
02:39:42,810 --> 02:39:37,780
she knows way more about me then I had

3078
02:39:48,690 --> 02:39:42,820
any idea right and was was this group of

3079
02:39:51,960 --> 02:39:48,700
three were they trying to make you feel

3080
02:39:55,860 --> 02:39:51,970
comfortable you know to keep you moving

3081
02:39:57,840 --> 02:39:55,870
forward in in in your disclosing not

3082
02:40:01,170 --> 02:39:57,850
only your childhood but what is they

3083
02:40:03,240 --> 02:40:01,180
were encouraging you yes well the two

3084
02:40:06,480 --> 02:40:03,250
agents were they trying to be your

3085
02:40:09,630 --> 02:40:06,490
friend is what I'm getting at the major

3086
02:40:12,030 --> 02:40:09,640
did yeah gave this major all the

3087
02:40:13,350 --> 02:40:12,040
difference in the world and scooted

3088
02:40:14,610 --> 02:40:13,360
their chairs back because I can hear I'm

3089
02:40:18,030 --> 02:40:14,620
screwed on the concrete

3090
02:40:20,070 --> 02:40:18,040
none I'm you know like a posture where

3091
02:40:21,660 --> 02:40:20,080
my head's on my chest because I'm

3092
02:40:24,230 --> 02:40:21,670
supposed to be hypnotized and I'm

3093
02:40:28,320 --> 02:40:24,240
thinking that's the posture to take and

3094
02:40:30,990 --> 02:40:28,330
Brad keeps telling me you know in your

3095
02:40:35,010 --> 02:40:31,000
mind's eye tell me what you see Jerry

3096
02:40:38,190 --> 02:40:35,020
and he said we're gonna go back to the

3097
02:40:41,389 --> 02:40:38,200
campground Jerry and when you were in

3098
02:40:44,130 --> 02:40:41,399
the tent this awesome lights didn't you

3099
02:40:45,300 --> 02:40:44,140
and he says think about it and tell me

3100
02:40:48,500 --> 02:40:45,310
what you see

3101
02:40:51,300 --> 02:40:48,510
and then I could see I could see it is

3102
02:40:56,429 --> 02:40:51,310
crystal clear as if I were watching a

3103
02:41:01,800 --> 02:40:56,439
movie and they took us out of the tent

3104
02:41:05,460 --> 02:41:01,810
and I was inside this triangle and it

3105
02:41:07,610 --> 02:41:05,470
was it was more enormous looking from

3106
02:41:11,969 --> 02:41:07,620
the inside than it was from the outside

3107
02:41:17,010 --> 02:41:11,979
and I recall everything was stainless

3108
02:41:20,190 --> 02:41:17,020
steel and white and I think I told Brad

3109
02:41:23,219 --> 02:41:20,200
- there were three flying saucers there

3110
02:41:25,590 --> 02:41:23,229
were at least three saucers parked at a

3111
02:41:31,080 --> 02:41:25,600
neat little row like like planes on

3112
02:41:35,520 --> 02:41:31,090
below a carrier deck and we were being

3113
02:41:39,240 --> 02:41:35,530
herded around by these by the little

3114
02:41:43,350 --> 02:41:39,250
grey guys and there was a guy in charge

3115
02:41:47,960 --> 02:41:43,360
a taller alien more humanoid but

3116
02:41:52,920 --> 02:41:47,970
still guy who appeared to be in church

3117
02:41:55,190 --> 02:41:52,930
and I he caught my attention for some

3118
02:41:57,750 --> 02:41:55,200
reason and I turned and I looked at him

3119
02:42:01,080 --> 02:41:57,760
and at the moment I looked at him he

3120
02:42:06,780 --> 02:42:01,090
turned and looked at me and and we

3121
02:42:09,360 --> 02:42:06,790
locked eyes and it was the most

3122
02:42:13,290 --> 02:42:09,370
terrifying thing you could imagine I

3123
02:42:16,051 --> 02:42:13,300
immediately felt naked I felt like he

3124
02:42:19,801 --> 02:42:16,061
knew everything in my mind he knew my

3125
02:42:22,830 --> 02:42:19,811
secrets he knew my childhood

3126
02:42:28,470 --> 02:42:22,840
he knew my white everything in my head

3127
02:42:29,970 --> 02:42:28,480
he knew in an instant and I could just

3128
02:42:32,700 --> 02:42:29,980
in those eyes

3129
02:42:34,440 --> 02:42:32,710
you know when I look at my dog's eyes

3130
02:42:36,950 --> 02:42:34,450
well my cat's eyes I can see you know

3131
02:42:40,830 --> 02:42:36,960
love and trust behind those eyes and

3132
02:42:43,290 --> 02:42:40,840
behind these eyes it was just intellect

3133
02:42:46,640 --> 02:42:43,300
now I don't know how I could tell that

3134
02:42:51,900 --> 02:42:46,650
but it was it just it was just pure

3135
02:42:54,690 --> 02:42:51,910
intellect you also described different

3136
02:43:00,930 --> 02:42:54,700
types of beings at this point some were

3137
02:43:03,511 --> 02:43:00,940
taller and tell me about that and it was

3138
02:43:09,000 --> 02:43:03,521
a pretty large group too as well and I

3139
02:43:11,670 --> 02:43:09,010
think you saw humans right yes I saw two

3140
02:43:14,761 --> 02:43:11,680
groups of humans and that troubles me to

3141
02:43:16,261 --> 02:43:14,771
this day maybe that's survivor's guilt

3142
02:43:16,950 --> 02:43:16,271
or you know I don't know what happened

3143
02:43:19,950 --> 02:43:16,960
to these people

3144
02:43:24,350 --> 02:43:19,960
but Jimmy this is hard to believe but

3145
02:43:26,670 --> 02:43:24,360
there were 50 people yeah various ages

3146
02:43:29,430 --> 02:43:26,680
there were children there were men there

3147
02:43:32,400 --> 02:43:29,440
were women black or white there was just

3148
02:43:34,290 --> 02:43:32,410
a crowd a mixed crowd of people and they

3149
02:43:37,290 --> 02:43:34,300
were all like me and they were all we're

3150
02:43:40,440 --> 02:43:37,300
all standing there and we're waiting our

3151
02:43:41,070 --> 02:43:40,450
turn and some are new to holding your

3152
02:43:44,690 --> 02:43:41,080
clothes

3153
02:43:48,440 --> 02:43:44,700
what do you mean waiting their turn they

3154
02:43:53,190 --> 02:43:48,450
they were taking us there was this

3155
02:43:53,840 --> 02:43:53,200
insect looking thing that was over six

3156
02:43:56,910 --> 02:43:53,850
feet tall

3157
02:43:57,120 --> 02:43:56,920
that was almost praying mantis-like with

3158
02:44:01,800 --> 02:43:57,130
the

3159
02:44:04,610 --> 02:44:01,810
guys bye guys not in my mind I picture

3160
02:44:08,969 --> 02:44:04,620
this being wearing a white lab coat I

3161
02:44:13,410 --> 02:44:08,979
know that's probably not real but that's

3162
02:44:17,700 --> 02:44:13,420
how I picture him mm-hmm and I remember

3163
02:44:20,280 --> 02:44:17,710
I heard Toby screaming and then that

3164
02:44:22,380 --> 02:44:20,290
just filled me with dread and then after

3165
02:44:24,929 --> 02:44:22,390
that a woman was screaming and her

3166
02:44:29,460 --> 02:44:24,939
scream I hear in my nightmares this

3167
02:44:34,500 --> 02:44:29,470
woman just me and then the gray guys

3168
02:44:36,840 --> 02:44:34,510
took me and then I know I'm and I'm

3169
02:44:41,160 --> 02:44:36,850
seeing this play out in front of Brad

3170
02:44:45,750 --> 02:44:41,170
and there are parts in this where I see

3171
02:44:48,450 --> 02:44:45,760
things that I didn't recall he dredged

3172
02:44:51,780 --> 02:44:48,460
all this up from my subconscious or from

3173
02:44:55,620 --> 02:44:51,790
somewhere and and I get the at least two

3174
02:45:00,420 --> 02:44:55,630
points I screamed and fainted or passed

3175
02:45:04,200 --> 02:45:00,430
out but the big insect like looking

3176
02:45:07,050 --> 02:45:04,210
thing they I was on the stainless steel

3177
02:45:13,910 --> 02:45:07,060
table and I fill my lungs with air and

3178
02:45:17,400 --> 02:45:13,920
swing and nothing come out there is

3179
02:45:21,480 --> 02:45:17,410
another part and and the book is very

3180
02:45:25,380 --> 02:45:21,490
detailed everyone you've got to get the

3181
02:45:28,679 --> 02:45:25,390
book we are literally just these are

3182
02:45:31,440 --> 02:45:28,689
just little snippets of of the story

3183
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:31,450
it's it's done in great detail but there

3184
02:45:40,110 --> 02:45:36,250
was something here that spoke to me

3185
02:45:45,350 --> 02:45:40,120
about military our military because he

3186
02:45:51,030 --> 02:45:45,360
described the some of these humans

3187
02:45:54,929 --> 02:45:51,040
wearing uniforms and they were crew

3188
02:45:57,060 --> 02:45:54,939
members on this ship absolutely no doubt

3189
02:46:02,100 --> 02:45:57,070
in my mind they were dressed in tan

3190
02:46:07,219 --> 02:46:02,110
flight suits right had orange round

3191
02:46:10,920 --> 02:46:07,229
orange insignias on their on their

3192
02:46:13,769 --> 02:46:10,930
shoulder and remember orange

3193
02:46:16,800 --> 02:46:13,779
we're a nametag would be I wish I could

3194
02:46:18,840 --> 02:46:16,810
visualize what was on that patch I would

3195
02:46:21,120 --> 02:46:18,850
love to know what that that says well

3196
02:46:24,210 --> 02:46:21,130
you're a human you're there you're

3197
02:46:26,880 --> 02:46:24,220
abducted yeah you're screaming you're

3198
02:46:30,650 --> 02:46:26,890
terrified tear Toby's freaking out

3199
02:46:35,790 --> 02:46:30,660
you've got a woman there also screaming

3200
02:46:39,059 --> 02:46:35,800
these humans in uniform did they care

3201
02:46:42,150 --> 02:46:39,069
did they try to help you or were they I

3202
02:46:46,559 --> 02:46:42,160
mean artists would not make eye contact

3203
02:46:49,530 --> 02:46:46,569
with me would not know absolutely they

3204
02:46:50,910 --> 02:46:49,540
was like we didn't exist and there was

3205
02:46:54,200 --> 02:46:50,920
no doubt that these were crew members

3206
02:46:57,870 --> 02:46:54,210
because this one guy and there was a

3207
02:47:02,429 --> 02:46:57,880
there was a woman too a young Hispanic

3208
02:47:04,530 --> 02:47:02,439
looking woman also and but this one guy

3209
02:47:08,250 --> 02:47:04,540
was working on like a panel that look

3210
02:47:10,080 --> 02:47:08,260
like a breaker box or something so

3211
02:47:15,420 --> 02:47:10,090
there's no question these were provement

3212
02:47:17,969 --> 02:47:15,430
these were these were these were

3213
02:47:23,010 --> 02:47:17,979
captured people like us right and and

3214
02:47:25,439 --> 02:47:23,020
Gregory's listening to this what did he

3215
02:47:27,960 --> 02:47:25,449
have to say about the human crew member

3216
02:47:31,290 --> 02:47:27,970
because this is what I'm thinking they

3217
02:47:34,050 --> 02:47:31,300
they know right these are probably Air

3218
02:47:35,460 --> 02:47:34,060
Force personnel that are that are part

3219
02:47:38,910 --> 02:47:35,470
of this project

3220
02:47:41,639 --> 02:47:38,920
this is just me going full-on conspiracy

3221
02:47:44,820 --> 02:47:41,649
but what did Gregory have to say about

3222
02:47:47,870 --> 02:47:44,830
the human crew members in uniform there

3223
02:47:53,400 --> 02:47:47,880
were a couple of points and that's one

3224
02:47:55,530 --> 02:47:53,410
when I mentioned that there was a hush

3225
02:48:01,590 --> 02:47:55,540
and discussion and a ruffling of papers

3226
02:48:03,360 --> 02:48:01,600
and Brad said you know you know you

3227
02:48:04,830 --> 02:48:03,370
lookee what are you seeing Terry and I

3228
02:48:08,219 --> 02:48:04,840
told him I'm seeing the man with the

3229
02:48:11,820 --> 02:48:08,229
orange shoulder patch and he said okay

3230
02:48:14,130 --> 02:48:11,830
well that didn't happen Terry it did not

3231
02:48:17,160 --> 02:48:14,140
happen there were no there were no

3232
02:48:19,200 --> 02:48:17,170
people there that didn't happen then

3233
02:48:24,450 --> 02:48:19,210
you'll forget about that and you won't

3234
02:48:30,179 --> 02:48:28,769
and they were freaked out by that they

3235
02:48:32,929 --> 02:48:30,189
did they did not like that there were a

3236
02:48:36,929 --> 02:48:32,939
couple of things that struck a nerve

3237
02:48:39,900 --> 02:48:36,939
that was probably and was it because do

3238
02:48:42,540 --> 02:48:39,910
you think that you would remember this

3239
02:48:46,439 --> 02:48:42,550
and repeat this and tell the world about

3240
02:48:49,170 --> 02:48:46,449
this later I mean why would they have

3241
02:48:53,099 --> 02:48:49,180
freaked out I mean this is secret

3242
02:48:58,010 --> 02:48:53,109
information right that's yeah I mean I

3243
02:49:02,400 --> 02:48:58,020
think that's that's proof of collusion

3244
02:49:05,939 --> 02:49:02,410
elaboration right I mean you know we we

3245
02:49:07,170 --> 02:49:05,949
got guys on that our crew members you

3246
02:49:10,139 --> 02:49:07,180
know I don't know what they're American

3247
02:49:12,479 --> 02:49:10,149
or not I didn't hear them talk but you

3248
02:49:14,729 --> 02:49:12,489
know my guess is they were I don't know

3249
02:49:15,809 --> 02:49:14,739
why I just guessed that but I do but

3250
02:49:19,050 --> 02:49:15,819
they could have been anything but they

3251
02:49:21,179 --> 02:49:19,060
were definitely human beings and and

3252
02:49:25,860 --> 02:49:21,189
that absolutely struck a nerve now I

3253
02:49:27,900 --> 02:49:25,870
want the the some of this other stuff to

3254
02:49:29,610 --> 02:49:27,910
stay in the book I want everybody to go

3255
02:49:32,160 --> 02:49:29,620
and read it there's there's so much

3256
02:49:34,679 --> 02:49:32,170
there but I have a couple of questions

3257
02:49:37,320 --> 02:49:34,689
for myself you know the the Jimmy Church

3258
02:49:41,820 --> 02:49:37,330
I'm the dude I'm a guy questions let's

3259
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:41,830
get to some nuts and bolts so what did

3260
02:49:47,910 --> 02:49:45,010
you what else did you see inside of the

3261
02:49:49,290 --> 02:49:47,920
craft what did it smell like that would

3262
02:49:55,110 --> 02:49:49,300
do you remember that

3263
02:49:59,160 --> 02:49:55,120
I don't recall the smell I've been asked

3264
02:50:05,250 --> 02:49:59,170
that a couple of times and I I don't

3265
02:50:07,950 --> 02:50:05,260
recall a smell now I I can't I can't say

3266
02:50:12,139 --> 02:50:07,960
that enough fair enough did you did the

3267
02:50:15,139 --> 02:50:12,149
craft ever feel like it was moving no

3268
02:50:19,110 --> 02:50:15,149
stationary it felt stationary okay now

3269
02:50:22,050 --> 02:50:19,120
what next you describe stainless steel

3270
02:50:24,750 --> 02:50:22,060
and white and I get that I get that

3271
02:50:27,000 --> 02:50:24,760
visual was it was there anything on the

3272
02:50:30,900 --> 02:50:27,010
walls you know were there any paintings

3273
02:50:32,309 --> 02:50:30,910
was there anything you know was was

3274
02:50:33,960 --> 02:50:32,319
there anything like that or was it just

3275
02:50:38,320 --> 02:50:33,970
completely clean

3276
02:50:42,040 --> 02:50:38,330
no there were hieroglyphic like marking

3277
02:50:43,930 --> 02:50:42,050
there were and they were in you know

3278
02:50:46,780 --> 02:50:43,940
where you would have an X like over a

3279
02:50:49,290 --> 02:50:46,790
portal or a doorway have you been able

3280
02:50:52,180 --> 02:50:49,300
to write those down and recall those I

3281
02:50:56,350 --> 02:50:52,190
maybe could if I were under hypnosis I

3282
02:50:59,680 --> 02:50:56,360
bet I could but I saw one thing that was

3283
02:51:01,480 --> 02:50:59,690
ornamental and it struck me and I don't

3284
02:51:04,600 --> 02:51:01,490
I don't know if I even made it into the

3285
02:51:07,780 --> 02:51:04,610
book or not but there was a stainless

3286
02:51:12,810 --> 02:51:07,790
steel panel and engraved in the metal

3287
02:51:17,261 --> 02:51:12,820
was kind of a stylized s and then leaves

3288
02:51:20,080 --> 02:51:17,271
white like leaves off of a plant Wow and

3289
02:51:21,610 --> 02:51:20,090
maybe half a dozen and I thought and

3290
02:51:25,301 --> 02:51:21,620
that was the only thing I saw that was

3291
02:51:28,530 --> 02:51:25,311
kind of decorative and it just was so it

3292
02:51:34,150 --> 02:51:28,540
seems so out of place in this you know

3293
02:51:37,600 --> 02:51:34,160
plane yeah yeah session yeah now were

3294
02:51:41,130 --> 02:51:37,610
you did they did you walk around the

3295
02:51:44,700 --> 02:51:41,140
ship were you escorted anywhere else

3296
02:51:47,801 --> 02:51:44,710
yeah they took us down the hallway and

3297
02:51:49,810 --> 02:51:47,811
in the beginning that's one less that's

3298
02:51:53,380 --> 02:51:49,820
when I saw the group well it's 50 people

3299
02:51:56,940 --> 02:51:53,390
now and that's when they took us and the

3300
02:51:59,380 --> 02:51:56,950
the grace herded us down this walkway

3301
02:52:01,840 --> 02:51:59,390
that was to the side now in the middle

3302
02:52:04,600 --> 02:52:01,850
of the thing it was all open for five

3303
02:52:08,230 --> 02:52:04,610
stories up you could look up and there

3304
02:52:11,320 --> 02:52:08,240
were walkways and offices and I don't

3305
02:52:15,580 --> 02:52:11,330
know what but they took us down a

3306
02:52:18,070 --> 02:52:15,590
corridor and this is all this is one of

3307
02:52:21,850 --> 02:52:18,080
the things that caught my thoughts my

3308
02:52:26,100 --> 02:52:21,860
sleep on the wall there was a row of

3309
02:52:27,970 --> 02:52:26,110
aquariums and inside these aquariums

3310
02:52:31,090 --> 02:52:27,980
there were these things that look like

3311
02:52:34,900 --> 02:52:31,100
puppies how big how big were the

3312
02:52:37,930 --> 02:52:34,910
aquariums the aquariums were all about

3313
02:52:41,290 --> 02:52:37,940
three feet in diameter okay so they were

3314
02:52:45,220 --> 02:52:41,300
circular know they were square there

3315
02:52:47,700 --> 02:52:45,230
were square okay well they were squared

3316
02:52:50,920 --> 02:52:47,710
there was a pinkish fluid inside them

3317
02:52:52,100 --> 02:52:50,930
and I saw these things that look like

3318
02:52:57,081 --> 02:52:52,110
puppies

3319
02:53:02,211 --> 02:52:57,091
and for some reason one of them twitched

3320
02:53:02,810 --> 02:53:02,221
and I think in the book I I ice cream an

3321
02:53:06,711 --> 02:53:02,820
expletive

3322
02:53:08,780 --> 02:53:06,721
and I must have passed that because I I

3323
02:53:11,841 --> 02:53:08,790
there's a blank space there in the

3324
02:53:14,660 --> 02:53:11,851
neighbor called hearing the zip of the

3325
02:53:20,350 --> 02:53:14,670
blood pressure cuff and Brad was taking

3326
02:53:22,461 --> 02:53:20,360
my blood pressure but that that visual

3327
02:53:26,270 --> 02:53:22,471
absolutely freaked me out

3328
02:53:28,370 --> 02:53:26,280
now when you say papi are you saying

3329
02:53:31,400 --> 02:53:28,380
fetus or are you saying something that

3330
02:53:33,591 --> 02:53:31,410
looked like a puppy like a dog at first

3331
02:53:36,320 --> 02:53:33,601
glance it looked like a dog puppy to me

3332
02:53:40,610 --> 02:53:36,330
right no I think it was a fetus I think

3333
02:53:43,870 --> 02:53:40,620
it was a fetus Wow and then I recognized

3334
02:53:47,360 --> 02:53:43,880
them as being human

3335
02:53:49,011 --> 02:53:47,370
after and I see this in the book at

3336
02:53:52,070 --> 02:53:49,021
first glance I take these four P of

3337
02:53:55,070 --> 02:53:52,080
puppies and I'm looking at them and then

3338
02:53:57,140 --> 02:53:55,080
I can see no these are are formed

3339
02:54:01,160 --> 02:53:57,150
there's a vertebrae there and there are

3340
02:54:02,600 --> 02:54:01,170
legs and these are these are embryos but

3341
02:54:08,480 --> 02:54:02,610
about the size of puppies

3342
02:54:17,831 --> 02:54:08,490
how many aquariums you know I miss that

3343
02:54:28,450 --> 02:54:17,841
a lot and I gotta say 50 holy crap now

3344
02:54:33,831 --> 02:54:28,460
is this is this farming boy you know

3345
02:54:40,220 --> 02:54:33,841
what what goes back to me is my

3346
02:54:43,160 --> 02:54:40,230
interaction with Betty this alien that

3347
02:54:47,870 --> 02:54:43,170
tells me that you know these things in

3348
02:54:53,600 --> 02:54:47,880
my legs you know that they've been doing

3349
02:55:00,940 --> 02:54:53,610
this for three generations now and I had

3350
02:55:06,551 --> 02:55:04,910
and I don't know if this is in the book

3351
02:55:08,720 --> 02:55:06,561
or not

3352
02:55:14,030 --> 02:55:08,730
well she said something like there there

3353
02:55:16,671 --> 02:55:14,040
are alien alien-human hybrids and that's

3354
02:55:21,020 --> 02:55:16,681
what she said she was and that's why she

3355
02:55:23,961 --> 02:55:21,030
had human characteristics she could have

3356
02:55:26,320 --> 02:55:23,971
come from one of those aquariums that

3357
02:55:30,530 --> 02:55:26,330
was my thought

3358
02:55:33,171 --> 02:55:30,540
teri I want to thank you what an

3359
02:55:36,530 --> 02:55:33,181
extraordinary conversation I can't wait

3360
02:55:39,381 --> 02:55:36,540
to get you on this show again there's so

3361
02:55:43,011 --> 02:55:39,391
much more to talk about with you we got

3362
02:55:44,631 --> 02:55:43,021
as much in tonight as we could and I

3363
02:55:47,381 --> 02:55:44,641
want to thank you for that and thank you

3364
02:55:49,640 --> 02:55:47,391
for opening up with us tonight the the

3365
02:55:51,770 --> 02:55:49,650
book the links and all the information

3366
02:55:53,541 --> 02:55:51,780
that everyone needs is over at Jimmy

3367
02:55:56,270 --> 02:55:53,551
Church radio.com you can go and click

3368
02:56:00,320 --> 02:55:56,280
and and go and get the book it is a

3369
02:56:03,950 --> 02:56:00,330
fantastic read and Terry just just thank

3370
02:56:06,860 --> 02:56:03,960
you for for the book and for coming out

3371
02:56:10,640 --> 02:56:06,870
and and sharing these you know these are

3372
02:56:13,220 --> 02:56:10,650
these are emotional memories and

3373
02:56:17,921 --> 02:56:13,230
encounters and experiences of yours and

3374
02:56:24,650 --> 02:56:22,091
supported know this this stuff is real

3375
02:56:26,900 --> 02:56:24,660
we have so much more that we need to

3376
02:56:29,751 --> 02:56:26,910
talk about and we will do it again very

3377
02:56:31,940 --> 02:56:29,761
very soon thank you so much Terry and I

3378
02:56:34,820 --> 02:56:31,950
say I say it at the end of every show

3379
02:56:38,060 --> 02:56:34,830
keep rolling that rock uphill don't

3380
02:56:40,461 --> 02:56:38,070
change mm-hmm Thank You Terry

3381
02:56:42,530 --> 02:56:40,471
thank you thank you Jim great

3382
02:56:45,411 --> 02:56:42,540
conversation right there and all the way

3383
02:56:47,631 --> 02:56:45,421
up to the end I have got to get credits

3384
02:56:49,520 --> 02:56:47,641
going and get out of here before the

3385
02:56:52,761 --> 02:56:49,530
network just you know does that thing

3386
02:56:55,310 --> 02:56:52,771
and just cuts me off and what a great

3387
02:57:00,020 --> 02:56:55,320
conversation tonight again the links are

3388
02:57:02,150 --> 02:57:00,030
over at Jimmy Church radio.com Terry

3389
02:57:04,700 --> 02:57:02,160
Lovelace fade to black cigs ecute of

3390
02:57:06,850 --> 02:57:04,710
producers Rita Kumari on shows produced

3391
02:57:09,320 --> 02:57:06,860
by hilton jaipur in a Dennis and Bob

3392
02:57:13,011 --> 02:57:09,330
announcers are Steve harder Jean Vito a

3393
02:57:16,011 --> 02:57:13,021
mark d Khobar webmaster is drew the geek

3394
02:57:17,570 --> 02:57:16,021
music doug aldrich intro space boys

3395
02:57:25,240 --> 02:57:17,580
space boy music

3396
02:57:31,310 --> 02:57:29,301
you to Terri Lovelace was broadcast on

3397
02:57:32,840 --> 02:57:31,320
the copyright of 2018 by fade to black

3398
02:57:35,090 --> 02:57:32,850
in the game-changer Network

3399
02:57:36,710 --> 02:57:35,100
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

3400
02:57:39,020 --> 02:57:36,720
copied or used anywhere in the known

3401
02:57:40,970 --> 02:57:39,030
universe without written permission from

3402
02:57:43,340 --> 02:57:40,980
fade to black or the GameChanger network

3403
02:57:46,250 --> 02:57:43,350
i'm your host jimmy church follow me on

3404
02:57:49,400 --> 02:57:46,260
twitter at JD radio until tomorrow night

3405
02:57:50,480 --> 02:57:49,410
Rob Potter is here I want everybody to

3406
02:57:52,530 --> 02:57:50,490
be safe

3407
02:58:13,600 --> 02:57:52,540
go back Lee tappy